rover4618

In a consumer action the venue is that of the consumer

Adelphos

These guys are talking about 4 “SUB” for the same credit card - specifically the Citi AA Platinum card. A new customer can presumably get at least 6 “Citi” SUB currently without any gaming:
- Citi AA Platinum (public)
- Citi AA Mileup (public)
- Citi AA Executive (public)
- Citi Priority Checking Account (targeted, connected to Mileup)
- Citi Priority Checking Account (targeted, connected to Citi AA Platinum)
- Citi Priority Checking Account (targeted, connected to Citi AA Executive)

I’m not sure if the business cards also can be linked to checking account offers

Adelphos

Do we have a single data point of the Mileup bonus being included the count for 4 SUB? What about the Executive card?

I can see for miles

Keep in mind you don't have to file a small claims lawsuit in your home state. If I'm not mistaken, it has to be in a state the defendant resides, has a place of business, or has a registered agent. So I'd think American could be sued in any state. Tennessee has by far the highest limit on a small claims suit, at $25,000 -- more in eviction or personal property recovery matters. A few other states have a $15,000 limit. Could be worth "an award" trip.

wiivile

What I want to know is how the fact the AAdvantage terms and conditions mention that they are governed by the laws of the state of Texas will affect any small claims (or federal) court case outside of Texas.

richarddd

Courts can hear cases governed by the laws of other jurisdictions. Generally the court hearing the case will apply Texas law unless there's a strong public policy reason not to do so.

wiivile

how could small claims court judges be expected to know the nuances of the legislative history and case law surrounding the laws of each state?

also doesn’t the fact that AA claims that the terms of AAdvantage are governed by the laws of the state of Texas undercut, at least partially, their argument that they are not subject to state law under the ADA? couldn’t it be seen as them voluntarily making AAdvantage subject to Texas law in addition to the ADA (federal law?)

i still maintain tho that miles earned via credit card were never subject to the ADA to begin with

richarddd

[1] The same way judges apply any law they are not familiar with. Do you think judges know all of the nuances of the legislative history and case law surrounding the laws of their own state?

For example, here's California: "If there is a law that applies to your case, the small claims judge must follow that law, interpreting it in a spirit of reasonableness and fairness to both parties." https://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/...sic_info.shtml

[2] That some provisions of Texas law might be preempted by the ADA doesn't mean more than those provisions are preempted. It doesn't mean Texas law is otherwise inapplicable.

[3] Find a court that agrees with you on the facts and the law and you'll win.

wiivile

this case is far too complex for small claims court IMHO. it is well suited to a class action but i might prefer to just sue for the small claim $10k max here in NY and hope AA settles with me and makes me sign some NDA. if they do that for all the people who have the balls and tenacity to sue them, they’ll still end up ahead...

sanany

AA practically was compensated by Citi Bank and the recipient of miles were compensated by Citi Bank as part of its customer acquisition strategy. The sign-up bonus is nothing new and a common business practice in this industry which goes through stringent to easy rules depending upon the state of economy and cost of credit. Bank always look to acquire new customers and sometimes go through unfair means like Wells Fargo fake accounts scandal. Now if we look at this whole situation, Citi Bank is also a culprit because they desperately wanted to acquire new customers and they let the multiple sign-up bonus policy continue in their interest. Now economy is in a different cycle and somebody between Citi or AA has decided that they want to get rid off these customers to reduce liabilities from their books. This can be easily seen as unfair and deceptive business practices by a judge on part of Citi and AA.

iluvdoco

Not sure if posted already but may be relevant- U.S. DOT considers weakening consumer protections against airlines.

https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea....e-protections/

Often1

That is the interpretation of a clickbait blogger. A very poor interpretation at that.

Defining "unfair & deceptive" is a good thing and having vague standards may well help some consumer in some matter, but it is far from clear that it helps most.

The FTC did this back in 2017, and has hardly backed off enforcing where it has jurisdiction.

wiivile

What is your position/title at Airlines4America?

Defining unfair and deceptive inherently narrows the scope of the DOT’s oversight. These rule modifications have been practically written by airline lobbying groups. They give airlines the ability to wriggle out of complaints.

Furthermore, the DOT can’t/shouldn’t simply copy and paste the FTC’s regulations because airlines in particular are highly deregulated and the DOT is frequently a consumer’s only viable recourse. (a federal lawsuit is not viable for most consumers)

Often1

Nobody -- least of all me -- has suggested that DOT cut & paste anything from any other agency -- least of all the FTC. The point is quite simply that defining what terms mean is just as often helpful to consumers as not.

Definitions also have the advantage of providing standards and benchmarks for the regulated industry, in this case, air carriers. That too helps consumers because consumers know what they can expect (and not).

What is it that so worries you about laws which provide crystal clear definitions?

drminn

Is there a post that outlines some of the letters to send to AA and/or where at AA to send the letter? Got the shutdown letter recently, a couple of weeks after taking my last award flight..