anacapamalibu

Double the price should be the CRH3 trains. Might as well fly.

rkkwan

Currently, on the T/Z, hard seat is 179RMB, soft seat 283. Hard sleeper ~320, Soft sleeper ~500.

On the D daytrain, 2nd class seat is 453RMB, 1st class 543.

That is pretty aggressive pricing. If the sleeper is like 1,000RMB, then I think few will take it.

rkkwan

Okay, I found out from a Chinese forum the current price on the D301/2 and D305/6 sleepers. Lower berth is 730RMB, upper berth 655. 2nd class seat is 327 (not 453).

Not sure how accurate these are.

Here's a page in Chinese with a photo of the D sleeper:

http://www.czt114.com/Html/Article/600.html

The D sleepers are also on Beijing-Hangzhou D309/310. Lower berth 730RMB, upper berth 820.

And this article says about the change from 4/1:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/travel/200...t_10852968.htm

anacapamalibu

Cheaper, faster, to fly.

But trains are fun.^

rkkwan

To me this is Beijing's logic:

They have to have a "high-speed" train between Beijing and Shanghai, even though the highspeed track is nowhere complete. But they still put the D31/32. 500RMB for sitting up 10 hours during the day. Of course, nobody rides it.

So, they decide to make the sleepers. Increasing the price, but from the photo, they don't look any more comfortable than the Z trains. I assume the coaches are shorter and therefore have reduced interior room as well.

But what's the point? Why should someone pay 200RMB more just to get on the train at 9:40p instead of 7:30p? Getting on a 7:30p "Z", one can then have dinner on the train and have about 10 hours of sleep. What's the benefit of the "D" unless one really hates the food on the train, or really have to work late? 200RMB can buy one a very nice dinner or two.

Well, seems like most want to take the "Z" sleeper instead of "D" sleeper. Okay, so just cancel all the "Z" trains to force people on the "D" then.

Brilliant.

mosburger

Yes, fly if originating from Honqgiao or other West Shanghai areas, otherwise take the train. And if beginning the journey from the Yangze delta industrial belt, the train is really the only option.

mosburger

You know the way Chinese customs go way better than me. A business dinner in Beijing or Shanghai might be worth a lot more than 200RMB in results.

rkkwan

True, but if the 4/1 change is real, then a lot of people will be forced to pay that extra for zero benefit.

FF

A: To get a better view of the countryside.
B: It's outside our Western comfort zone - although we would like to travel in as much comfort as possible.

So the fact that it takes longer and is more expensive than flying aren't really a problem for us.

anacapamalibu

The food on the train is not very good, the drinks at the bar are weak, and
the beer is warm. Best to BYOB.

If you can't stand the smell of cigarettes, better watchout as you can smoke at
the rear area of every car.

But if its your birthday you can get a free cup of noodles in the dining car.

amtrakusa

The day-time D train is actually always full. It has a few stops, so it is very convenient for people who need to travel to one of these intermediate stations. And yes, it is also good for looking out of the window. As more and more trains in China are taking the overnight approach, it is actually getting hard to see anything when taking trains in China.

The day-time D train was selling discounted tickets (10%-20% depending on OD pairs) the last time I rode it. It is also possible they will sell discounted tickets when 4/1 comes. As with all things in China, policies can change quickly and nothing is annouced until a few days before its implementation.

Also as of 1/25/09 (I think?) there is no more domestic fuel surcharge for airline tickets in China. So all you pay is the 50 RMB airport construction fee beside the ticket price. It is very likly you can find a ticket that is less than 300RMB (all inclusive) from PEK to SHA. China Eastern is having hourly departure on this route with all new A330s. these are nice airplanes. Beside you can even earn NWA miles, even for heavily discounted tickets.

moondog

You can only earn NW miles if you opt to fly the dreaded CZ on its single daily flight, and probably at a 40% multiplier.

BTW, I could have sworn that I replied to this thread earlier today with a comment about beer temperature on the train, but either something fishy happened or that was a different thread.

moondog

I suspect that the powers that be have misinterpreted some of the Shinkansen comparisons. Intra-Honshu, train and plane tickets are comparably priced (just like Acela),.... because total travel times are a wash.

Essentially, a 4 (or even 5) hour train trip can compete with a 1.5 hour flight because trains are more comfortable than trains, they serve city centers (though not in BJ or SH), and there aren't any requirements to show up ridiculously early or wait 20 minutes for checked baggage. Furthermore, to the credit of China train enthusiasts, it's a well known fact that pulling off BJ to SH (or vv) in under 5 hours door-to-door is a real treat; for rush hour travelers, the average is above 6 hours.

That having been said, no one can dispute the fact that 6 is less than 10. Furthermore, 10+ hour flying experiences are not especially common, though they certainly loom large in the memories of those who have experienced them (self included).

In closing, in light of the fact that it rarely costs more than 800 (all in) for pax with schedule flexibility to travel between BJ and SH via air, I think the new train fares are a bit off.... and, they probably won't last long. Once they figure out how to do the trip in 5 or 6 hours, they should feel free to gouge away... until then, stick with the y400 upper limit.

rkkwan

anacapamalibu mentioned it in his post this morning. But I didn't see yours. Anyways, I thought beer was always kind of warm in China...

And last year in some remote county in Southwest Sichuan populated by the Yi (彝) people, we were served heated beer with added lees (deposits from wine fermentation).

As for your other point, people sit for 10 hours on a plane because they have no choice. Hey, I have flown 15-hr EWR-HKG in coach many times. Here, they have choices.

anacapamalibu

Heated beer sounds better than warm beer.^
The alcohol might absorb faster into your system.