Some of what poor schwarm was faced with were expensive luxuries probably ordered with the best intention of showing maximum hospitality to the foreigners. But some can be found routinely almost anywhere. Duck webs, for instance, are on the menus of Beijing duck restaurants, along with every other bit of the duck except the quack (duck hearts, etc). Someone I was treating to dinner ordered duck webs in mustard sauce at a Sichuan restaurant in Beijing so I was obliged to try them. They were unpleasantly chewy, and it was the sauce that was appealing, if anything. I won't be trying them again.

I was reminded of this later when having to eat teriyaki crickets in Nagano prefecture in Japan. Again the sauce was nice, but the texture of the crickets not much of a contribution to the overall experience, and not one I'd care to repeat. But the raw horse, part of the same meal, was fabulous. Luckily the bee larvae we were promised were off the menu, although you'll come across these in some parts of China, too (Wuyi Shan comes to mind).

But such difficult (to us) dishes constitute a very small part of any menu, and, of course, when you're by yourself you can avoid them. The classic 'look how rich I am--I want to impress the socks off you' dishes such as abalone, birds nest soup, or shark fin I find just uninteresting to eat (as well as having problems with the way the sharks are treated), but these occur in Cantonese restaurants and in many that consider themselves up-market whatever the rest of their menu consists of. These and the endangered species, seriously strange creatures, camel paw, etc. tend to occur right at the front of the menu under tese cai (speciality dishes) and can easily be avoided when you're ordering yourself, nor can they usually be found in more modest restaurants.

Many in this kind of discussion also express a fear of eating something they'd regard as a pet. Dog meat is usually found in speciality restaurants, and not likely to be ordered by accident. It's also a 'heating' meat, and more typically found in winter than summer. Donkey is a fairly popular ingredient in the north, and of course for some that falls into the pet rather than the standard edible quadruped category. But it's not anything like as common as pork (the 'big meat'), chicken, or beef.

The answer for those nervous of getting out and about where there are no menus in English, is to take a guide book that introduces local dishes and provides their character names, a phrase book that lists all the meat characters on one page, the vegetable characters on another, etc. and for those days when you just want to make sure of something moderately familiar, a copy of a take-away menu from your local Chinese restaurant. The food won't be the same, but it won't be adventurous either.

While the names of some dishes are obscure ("Buddha jumping over the wall"--a Fuzhou stew), the names of many others consist of little more than a note of their ingredients and a cooking verb. Comparing these with what's in a phrase book can get you a long way.

And in the end many just rely on the stand-by of pointing at someone else's 'safe' looking dish.

Peter N-H

If you are a picky eater, I can see where eating out in China can sometimes be an unpleasant experience. If, however, you have more of an "adventurous" palette, dining in China can be an absolute delight.

I definitely fall into the latter category, and I truly love dining in China. I have rarely had an unpleasant meal. I have always tried everything that has been offered to me, and only a couple times have I tried something that I would never want to eat again.

I have found that when locals take you out for a meal, they do seem to really enjoy playing "Let's Shock the Westerner!" They will intentionally order the most bizzare things and wait with anticipation to see if you'll actually try it. I think I may have actually disappointed a few of my hosts by willingly trying (and actually enjoying) some of the odd dishes they have ordered.

When I first went to Asia 20 years ago, I promised myself that I would try anything at least once. This has served me well, and I have been exposed to some truly amazing foods.

In the West, France has the reputation for fine cuisine. IMHO, France has nothing over China.

I'll second you there. The range of Chinese (and this is not the best term considering so many variations) cuisine is amazingly diverse. ^
I'll stick however with French in dessert area for now, perhaps Peter can suggest smth interesting worth trying?

This is my favorite Food Snob thread :D

Now we have a French vs. Chinese battle about to begin :p

M8

Well, yeah; on hundreds of occasions, in fact. My worst ever, in case you're curious, was earlier this year when we were visiting the only port in China that is licensed to process really toxic freight (I'm too lazy to look up the name, but it is due north of Suzhou on the river). Lunch was served before the port visit, and I couldn't help but noticing that the Chinese hosts shyed away from all of the fancy fish/seafood dishes. After seeing the port, I understood why; the chemicals in the air made my eyes water and my stomach turn. Then, there was the river itself..... truly horrifying.

Also, in an earlier post, you postulated that you could think of no reason for tourists not to eat Chinese food in China. While I'll give you one; some people just don't like Chinese food. And, I tend to fall into that category. Sure there are exceptions, but for the most part I'm happier eating other stuff (not necessarily McDonalds, mind you, just other cuisines).

Conversely, I actually really enjoy Japanese food (well, save the really wierd stuff; it's already been established that I am a difficult dinner date). One of the best restaurants I've ever been to is Rodante in Hiroshima. Plus, I've had dozens of memorable kaiseki meals at hot springs all over Japan (remember, I am a spa guy).

Some people have taken offense toward my culinary tastes in the past (and even insinated that I should work in different country), but over the years I've developed the ability to get along just fine. Like philipias, I do banquets around twice a week, during which I am respectful and try to sample as many dishes as my stomach can take. That's all part of the job.

Peter: iahphx actually went to the other Xiaowangfu near Ritan Park; the Guanghua Rd. location is in a hutong southwest of the Kerry Centre, which is what supplies the bulk of the white crowd, I think. I have a slight preference for the latter.

Peter again: Regarding Chinese characters on menus for those that don't read Chinese, aside from learning the basics (beef, chicken, broccoli, etc), I learned early on to steer away from dishes that included the moon radical in any of their characters. If you see 月, there's a good chance you're going to end up eating organs.

Peter N-H: Eating Chinese food is one of the principal pleasures of travelling in China.

wideman: This is a tautology, surely?

Peter N-H: Er...no.

These are my two biggest peeves about the food scene in major Chinese cities. While there are quite a few dishes Taiwanese restaurants have pretty much perfected, beef noodle soup for instance, the most upscale Taiwanese restaurants on the mainland have invented some terrible hybrid set menus ideal for business entertaining. These menus combines what is perceived to be the most expensive items from both Chinese and "Western" banquets: shark fin, seared foie gras, filet mignon, abalone, etc. The plating is individual. The setting is invariably over-the-top. There is usually a long list of horrendously over-priced Grand Cru.

Hong Kong has been dabbling with nouvelle Chinoise for quite a few years. The earliest of these opened around 1997 in Lang Kwai Fong. Beyond these changes instigated by an aspiration to some cosmopolitan taste, Cantonese food in Hong Kong has evolved quite a bit in the past couple of decades. For health reasons, the use of lard has almost entirely disappeared, most to the chagrin of purists. According to quite a few chefs in HK, the fast pace of the city and the demand for quick turnaround have forced many of them to use short-cut techniques. Macau has really become the last refuge of old-style Cantonese.

That's the point I was trying to make. The 'strange' food in Japan I described is not that different to food that was commonly found in Spain just over 20 years ago (it's still there, if you known where to look). Even then, very few tourists ever tried the stuff. Only now are some people willing to try the baby eels, snails and stranger looking examples of shellfish that has always been a part of the traditional Spanish diet.

The Xiao Wang restaurant I'm talking about is IN Ritan Park. You enter the park through the gates, walk through the gardens, get lost, unsuccessfully show someone the Chinese characters for the restaurant, and then stumble upon it (you avoid some of those steps if your Chinese friend meets you at one of the park gates :) ).

I've heard of two other Xiao Wang's in Chaoyang -- one further north near the Worker's Stadium (not sure if Ritan Park is still considered Chaoyang) -- so maybe this is part of the confusion. Regardless, this restaurant must be one of the most pleasant in Beijing, kind of like an oasis in the chaos.

BTW, moondog, I'm always amused by your "ex-pat in China who hates Chinese food" stories. They're just so, well, real!

I frequently make mistakes of style and logic (and other mistakes, of which answering this is probably one) but not on this particular occasion. The meaning of the sentence is straightforward to everyone else, I expect, and suggests that amongst the various pleasures of travelling in China, eating Chinese dishes there (as opposed to McDonald's or French, etc.) is one of the most significant (although there are some excellent foreign meals to be had, too). It is neither repetitous in a way that would make it tautological as a fault of style, nor necessarily true in the philosophical sense in a way that would make it a tautology in logical terms.

In order to get anywhere close to calling this a tautology you have to insist on restricting the meaning of 'Chinese food' to 'food made in China with Chinese ingredients', whereas the actual everyday meaning and the one everyone else will be using is 'food whose recipes are of Chinese origin', wherever they are eaten.

The stress on 'Chinese food in China' is deliberate and made in the context of the discussion of Chinese food in China and Chinese food served overseas (which, according to the definition you require would of course have to be called American or British or French food, etc.). It also lays particular emphasis on eating Chinese food in China as opposed to the innumerable foreign options available there.

But even if your very narrow definition were to be accepted as an exclusive meaning for 'Chinese food', it would only take one 'extremely rare' instance of imported foods to avoid the accusation of tautology, although the sentence under that interpretation and those circumstances would lack much interest. However, there's nothing 'extremely rare (or possibly nonexistent)' about importing foreign foodstuffs to China. All major foreign-run hotels and large numbers of restaurants serving foreign foods (which must be called Chinese restaurants, under your narrow definition) import from overseas everything from butter pats, oils, and specific herbs and spices to foie gras, truffles, crab, many fish, smoked meats, biscotti, chocolate, etc. etc. Many Chinese restaurants also use imported foods, without becoming noticeably less Chinese in the process.

Peter N-H

No need to go to China for authentic chinese food
 

San Francisco, Los Angeles, Irvine, Chicago, Queens NY and Vancouver have very authentic chinese food. No need to travel half way around the world to experience it. The "Westernized" food ranges from General Tsos Chicken to Chop Suey. Dishes like Moo Goo Gai Pan, Sweet and Sour Chicken, Chicken with Broccoli are more Americanized then anything.

in addition to bellagio, check out la paleta. a friend took us to their only beijing location (64810887) over the weekend because her dad is the owner and she wanted to show it off. it is actually right next to a bellagio and was even more crowded. i liked it because they had really cool desserts (both western and hk style)

These fashions come and go, and it will be somewhere else in a few months. But the various Xiaowang branches (and what's happened to the other couple of equally expat-targeting ones on the south side of Jianguo Men Wai?) seem to be where everyone takes their visiting parents who are very tentative about anything unfamiliar. Charming to think of anywhere in rather small and expat thronged Ritan Gongyuan (Stone Boat, and, dare I say it, Maggie's) as 'hidden', though.

Perhaps one of the more brilliant Mandarin speakers can jump in, but the only one I can think of is the 'du' of 'duzi' for stomach/tripe. And perhaps the 'zang' of 'neizang' for entrails. Oh, and 'fei' for lung. And the 'chang' of 'xiangchang' for sausage. Hm...

Peter N-H

Hi All: I am not a world traveler by any means. My sister and I will be in Beijing and Shanghai in april. Would any of you be able to provide some names of chinese dishes we might order. We would like to go to restaurants frequented by the locals rather than those suggested by a hotel desk or tourguide. However we are well aware we may not be able to understand one word of the menu. We would like anything with shrimp, beef, pork or chicken, but other things you've mentioned scare me frankly. I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

2 comments:

-finding restaurants that have NO ability to communicate in english in bj and sh can be a challenge unless you go way downmarket -- 成都小吃 style
-providing you with a list of dishes is impractical for the reasons mentioned early on in this thread; most tourguides provide a language section that is sufficient for eating

hmmm... now that i think about it, there are plenty of exceptions to my first comment. but, i still wouldn't stress too much. just remember what i said about 月