I'm planning a trip from Japan to England by motorcycle. Yes, I realize that it involves two islands between which lie 15,000 km of land, but we do have ferries in this modern world, and I'll be using them.

I plan to ride a ferry from Kobe, Japan to Shanghai, then west to Xian, up to Urumqi, and out into Kazakhstan. Aside from whatever difficulties there are involving access to Xinjiang, what can anyone tell me about customs requirements regarding motor vehicles

And, more importantly, has anyone ever been through the Kazakh border west of Urumqi?

i think you'll be able to pull it off, but be prepared to do the bribery thing because, setting aside the border crossing issue, you'll be in constant violation of at least 2 prc laws: 1) i'm assuming you won't bother to get a chinese driver's license or tag for you cycle; and 2) even if you were properly tagged, you'd need special authorization to travel outside of your tag's domain.

the "access to xinjiang" problem is a non issue in comparision to the afforementioned points, but i still don't mean to discourage you; nor do i encourage you to jump through all the hoops necessary to make yourself legit because you'd end up spending A LOT of time in the process.

just be prepared to get stopped 5+ times and open your wallet (i would think y100-200 would do the trick each time). but, there is also the (small) risk that you will be stopped dead in your tracks. if you're ok with that, then go for it. imo, the most you stand to loose is a motorcycle.

btw, welcome to ft (and thanks for, what has to be, one of the most original first posts i've ever seen).

You might want to thumb through Jim Rogers' books "Investment Biker" and "Adventure Capitalist" to get some advice on what you can expect. He mentions the bribery thing.

Thanks for the quick responses. I'm not doing this until next spring, so I still have some time.

The prospect of losing my bike... I'd actually rather go legit, if possible. No bike = end of the trip.

I'm still waiting for a response from the Chinese Embassy in Washington, and I'm not going to hold my breath.

I'll check out the books you mentioned as well.

When I hear "motorcycle" + "Asia" I think www.gt-rider.com. On this site is a nice link to a 2002 Hanoi-Paris trip. Also, you might want to sift through thorntree. There's a lot of noise, but some authoritative information as well.

I checked those sites. Wish I knew French...

Thorntree looks good. The fora are nicely divided, so it looks like I can continue with my follow-up questions there as well.

An update - I got my response from the Chinese Embassy, the response I was exprecting:

"Contact China international travel service."

There's a Chinese consulate office here in Sapporo, but you can't get in. I could get SO much information, but it ain't gonna happen that way...

Thanks all for your posts. I'll keep you updated.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

i've now spent enough time in china to proclaim that "legit," probably isn't in the cards. however, i think you could borrow a tag (hopefiully, a black one) to, at least, get your vehicle semi-compliant.

"Thanks for yor e-mail. We did do motorcyling in China. There are some
regulations in China concerned with motorcyclings. And itcosts more money than the
normal trip.A jeep and a national guide must be accompanied. The border
between China and Kazakistan is opened to vehicles and motorcycles with the permitsssion from concerned departments which we can get for the clients. would you
please tell me how long you will travel in china? I can work out a itinerary for you.

Best regards!

S Y/CITS"

This was the response I got. Looks like they're getting ready to sink their teeth in...

Sounds to me like they are "concerned for your safety" LOL. That is the line they usually give for why you must get all the proper permits, and have the guide and jeep to accompany you on your journey. And of course they want your money. Permits are usually quite expensive and is a piece of paper you may never even see. Sounds like to go the legit and legal route might be quite complicated and expensive.

The response has arrived:
[words in brackets are my additions]

"Dear sir,

I am sure that you have received my last email on 20 June. for one [person]
[motor]cycling in China following the route below will cost you USD14330.--including an English speaking guide ,a jeep, all the permits, food and hotel accomodations, TPI of your motorbike, number plate, Chinese driving permit and road toll. Your need to pay personal natures, gas for your motorbike.

The route is: Shanghai / Suzhou / Nanjing / Hefei / Kaifeng /Zhengzhou / Luoyang / Xian / Pingliang / Lanzhou / Wuwei /Jiayuguan Pass of Great Wall / Dunhuang / Hami / Turpam / Urumuqi / Kuntun / Korgas Pass where you can drive out of China to Almarty.[This is the exact same route I had planned myself.]

If you agree to the above, please confirm it to me.

Best regards!

SY/CITS"


I love the phrase "all the permits" in an otherwise pretty explicit list. It keeps options open doesn't it. The Use of Public Toilets Permit, Consumption of the People's Natural Resources Permit, Permit to Cease Consumption of the People's Natural Resources, etc.

Well, I'd love to agree to those terms, and I'd love to have a bank account that could handle that kind of hit, but after $14,330, I'd be forced to develop my lounge act in Almaty just to scrape enough together to get out of town.

Corporate sponsor? See if Coca-Cola or the IOC would foot the bill? Get a group of bikers in Japan that want to join me and ride through the land like the Hell's Angels? Or would they require that each person have their own Jeep and English-speaking guide? Are Japanese-speaking guides more expensive?

Hmmm...

While Japan doesn't come to mind as the best place to recruit other bikers, I think you've hit the nail on the head insofar as how to bring that number down to earth is concerned; if you added 4-6 others, you'd be in a more sane price category.

I also happen to think that you could chop quite a bit off the $14k number itself by simply forcing CITS to provide an itemized list and backing out items you don't want (e.g. the English speaking guide, meals, overpriced hotels, permits you could care less about, etc.).

I estimate the actual cost of food and accomodation along your proposed route is no more than $500 (and, that's living well). And, let's assume another $300 for gas (you can make a better guesstimate based on your bike's fuel consumption patterns; gas prices here average $2.60 per gallon; I think your proposed routing is about 2500 miles).

So that's $800 in hard costs (and $13.6k in fluff -- though I have to admit that there is nothing fluffy about the Jeep).

Anyway, good luck and don't let CITS bully you around too much.

The government/CITS response to the query about bringing your own vehicle to China and driving it around has been standard for a decade to my personal knowledge, and probably longer. You are quite simply not permitted just to show up in China with your own vehicle and drive around. And there's no point in thinking, as hinted by others, that you'll be able to bribe your way around it. You won't. The only way to get to drive around China in your own vehicle more or less at random is to have a residence permit for China, a Chinese driving licence, and a vehicle provided by your employer, purchased by yourself in China, or rented. Even with rental venturing far away from the point of rental can be tricky.

It might also be added that only the insane or those with long experience of Chinese traffic tackle driving in China, where there is simply no manoeuvre so absurd or suicidal that it isn't performed with considerable frequency. The only strategy is to assume that every other vehicle is being driven by killer zombies. Driving is best left to natives.

If you do arrive in China with your own vehicle you must first have everything mapped out and booked with CITS. The requirement to have an accompanying vehicle, driver, and guide are absolutely standard. If you are travelling in your own car you can get away with just the guide, who, if your journey is an extended one across China, will indeed have a briefcase full of permits and paperwork.

CITS will map out the entire route, and require you to follow it directly, booking all the hotels for you and throwing in day tours at various cities. You can ditch the day tours, but almost certainly not the hotel bookings, which will of course be at the 'best' hotels and at the most inflated prices. You ought to be able to negotiate down the quality of the hotels, but you will certainly be paying several times more than you need to for them.

I've come across two examples of this procedure in progress in Xinjiang itself. One was a convey of three Land-Rovers with British soldiers in them making their way from Hong Kong to London at the end of a tour of duty, and raising money for charity at the same time. It had taken them 18 months to make the arrangements, and they were accompanied by a CITS guide with a large mound of papers.

The second was a pair of Dutch bikers, one on a motorbike and side car, the other on a regular bike, who had driven from Holland to the Kyrgyz border with China. They dealt by fax and telex with a Kashgar-based agency with the standard inflated ideas, and in the end took the option to have the agency bring a truck to the Torugart Pass border, on which the bikes were loaded. The cab then had to accommodate driver, guide, and the two of them, so they threw the guide out in Kashgar. They also rejected the day tour there, and downgraded the hotel. It was only one over-night stay before heading on to the Khunjerab Pass with Pakistan, and getting back on two wheels at that point. Despite intense negotiations the price was in four figures in US dollars.

In short, pay up and put up with a fixed itinerary, or forget about it. Or do it by pushbike not motorbike, which is permit-free and just a matter of climbing on and pedalling off (as well as being better for the heart, lungs, and environment).

There is no particular added difficulty in including Xinjiang in your plans, however. And the road border crossing to Kazakhstan is not noted for difficulties with anything but the rapacity of the Kazakh border guards eager to find that you are not crossing into Kazakhstan on precisely the day specified in your visa.

Peter N-H
http://www.datasinica.com
http://peternh.blogspot.com