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narvik Aug 19, 2023 5:16 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35510480)
Everything else seems to be humming along nicely.

Define "nicely".
If they are only getting ~U$400 for a PEK-MEL R/T, I'd say they are not doing that 'nicely'.

Demand is a big issue, IMO (for everything other than US-CHINA).

mlin32 Aug 19, 2023 4:55 pm

Doesn't the chinese gouvernement prop up the major Chinese airlines anyway when things go bad, like most countries ?

tauphi Aug 19, 2023 6:45 pm


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35510480)
Oops, my bad. What are the Chinese airlines missing other than Canada and the US? Everything else seems to be humming along nicely.

The figures are retrospective. They're looking at the first six months of 2023. Until 8/Feb, China still had mandatory quarantine for inbound passengers. International flights didn't really ramp back up until late Q2.

travelinmanS Aug 19, 2023 9:49 pm


Originally Posted by tauphi (Post 35511934)
The figures are retrospective. They're looking at the first six months of 2023. Until 8/Feb, China still had mandatory quarantine for inbound passengers. International flights didn't really ramp back up until late Q2.

I believe it was January 8th that the jailing of inbound passengers stopped. Nonetheless you’re right in that flights didn’t really ramp up until March/April.

gudugan Aug 20, 2023 11:22 am

Super anecdotal evidence: I see a bunch of my non-Chinese friends (20-30s) visiting Taiwan in the past few months. About the same number also visit HK. None of them visit China.
My friends who visit China are all Chinese.

mlin32 Aug 20, 2023 2:03 pm

Well, for starters, the visa requirement for many nationalities turns off a lot of people who do casual tourism. The HK and Taiwan region don't require visas for many western countries' citizens.

gudugan Aug 20, 2023 2:10 pm

Well I know that. But this same set of people wasn't going to Taiwan pre covid (some were going to HK) and at least some of them were going to China (yes, they got visas).

The free 3 year visa extension is not well known and maybe people's visas have expired and they don't care to renew

italdesign Aug 20, 2023 6:16 pm


Originally Posted by travelinmanS (Post 35504116)
The real reason is that China has gone out of its way over the last 5 years to position itself as a country few people want to visit.

Well said, though I'd say the positioning got a healthy boost from negative bias on pro-Western media.

It's interesting that people are rushing back to Japan despite its anti-foreigner sentiment during COVID.

italdesign Aug 20, 2023 8:10 pm

Even before Covid, I always thought China, unlike all other countries I've been to, was an alternate universe. All the major Western tech platforms don't work (Google, gmail, FB, Youtube, Google Maps, Uber, etc), and the massive crowds of domestic tourists suggest little need for foreign tourists. It just intensified recently.

On one hand, self-sufficient domestic tourism is a pride very few major countries can enjoy. This is just part of the mosaic of self-reliance China has been working towards.

On the other hand, it makes it highly unattractive to foreigners.

tauphi Aug 20, 2023 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by travelinmanS (Post 35512189)
I believe it was January 8th that the jailing of inbound passengers stopped. Nonetheless you’re right in that flights didn’t really ramp up until March/April.

You're right. The quarantine was removed in Jan. What was reopened in Feb was the land crossings between China and Hong Kong.

gudugan Aug 20, 2023 8:45 pm


Originally Posted by italdesign (Post 35514441)
Even before Covid, I always thought China, unlike all other countries I've been to, was an alternate universe. All the major Western tech platforms don't work (Google, gmail, FB, Youtube, Google Maps, Uber, etc), and the massive crowds of domestic tourists suggest little need for foreign tourists. It just intensified recently.

On one hand, self-sufficient domestic tourism is a pride very few major countries can enjoy. This is just part of the mosaic of self-reliance China has been working towards.

On the other hand, it makes it highly unattractive to foreigners.

Honestly the alternate universe is what is interesting about going to China... maybe I like the strange things like moondog's picture above...

italdesign Aug 21, 2023 5:27 am


Originally Posted by gudugan (Post 35514516)
Honestly the alternate universe is what is interesting about going to China... maybe I like the strange things like moondog's picture above...

I know what you mean. It's fascinating for sure. But unlike say Japan, this alternate universe isn't particularly welcoming to foreigners, hence the lack of visit.

moondog Aug 21, 2023 6:31 am


Originally Posted by italdesign (Post 35515173)
I know what you mean. It's fascinating for sure. But unlike say Japan, this alternate universe isn't particularly welcoming to foreigners, hence the lack of visit.

Japan is only welcoming in a superficial manner...sort of like Minnesota.

uanj Aug 21, 2023 7:15 am


Originally Posted by moondog (Post 35515265)
Japan is only welcoming in a superficial manner...sort of like Minnesota.

What makes you say this? Struggling to see similarities between MN and Japan....

Japan at least has tourism promotion and ad campaigns. In either May or June landing at NRT there was an Intenational Milk Day and Hokkaido promotion booth as you left Customs. And I got free milk! Can anyone remember the last time they saw an ad campaign for overseas tourists to go to China?

I think for many countries international travel is not just for the economic benefits but also represents connection to the rest of the world, being integrated into the world fabric. That's just not where "Beijing" is at the moment.

moondog Aug 21, 2023 8:42 am


Originally Posted by uanj (Post 35515345)
What makes you say this? Struggling to see similarities between MN and Japan....

Japan at least has tourism promotion and ad campaigns. In either May or June landing at NRT there was an Intenational Milk Day and Hokkaido promotion booth as you left Customs. And I got free milk! Can anyone remember the last time they saw an ad campaign for overseas tourists to go to China?

I think for many countries international travel is not just for the economic benefits but also represents connection to the rest of the world, being integrated into the world fabric. That's just not where "Beijing" is at the moment.

I now regret responding to one generalization with another, but the idea has to do with expressed hospitality not necessarily representing underlying feelings.


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