Originally Posted by boat stuck (Post 35499837)

Well, "China" is not a monolithic entity. Like any other county, there's factions with different motives and interests.

Originally Posted by Duck1981 (Post 35501900)

Still have in my mind that draconic lockdowns can be implemented any minute - thank you, I go to Bali.

Originally Posted by discoseal (Post 35502160)

I believe part of the reason why fares to ASEAN are cheap is partly due to capacity dumping given that the West is sparring with China over trade disputes and overflying Russia

Originally Posted by valdor (Post 35501863)

I think another major issue is that China does very poorly when it comes to exporting its culture. Japan and Korea absolutely dominate the international cultural scene in pretty much every Asian countries I've lived in, and most people as a result want to visit there more than they want to visit China. That is unlikely to change any time soon given how censorship in China severely restricts the development of the cultural scene the country would need to compete.

Originally Posted by 889 (Post 35499706)

There are also the new visa difficulties: have to visit for fingerprinting, have to make an appointment for it long in advance, and have to fill out an exceptionally invasive visa application.

Originally Posted by boat stuck (Post 35500621)

Visa hassles has to be at the top of the list. Adjusted for GDP, I think the Chinese visa is probably the worst in the world for "how annoying is it to get" for a major country. US visas are more hassle by absolute value, but the all countries in China's peer group (and most higher HDI countries) have better visa policies.

A e-visa system that lets people who just want a 30-day single entry tourist visa skip the consulate visit would do wonders, for example. But there won't be any improvement while the trade/tech war is in progress.

Originally Posted by gudugan (Post 35503996)

I applied for a visa in April with no agent and didn’t get fingerprinted

the application is also not that invasive compared to a US or Schengen visa (yes, many people need a visa to go to Schengen countries)

Originally Posted by travelinmanS (Post 35504116)

The real reason is that China has gone out of its way over the last 5 years to position itself as a country few people want to visit.

2008 was peak China. People were coming here and raving about it. Everyone I told “I live in China” was impressed and talked about the awesome Olympics, incredible growing infrastructure and economic growth.

When I tell people now “I live in China” the most common response is “Why”? Or “I hope you can get out of there soon”.

Very few tourists want to visit China now.