For how much longer will foreigners be second class technological citizens in China?
Apr 28, 2019, 7:34 pm
#62
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SIN
Programs: KF, MPC, BAEC // Bonvoy, WoH, Honors
Posts: 1,464
Apr 29, 2019, 8:59 am
#63
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: HRB
Programs: OZ Diamond
Posts: 130
Well... interesting. That was a fairly quick response from the government, compared to some other things like requiring real-name registration for those China Unicom HK dual-number SIM cards.
I appreciate this being pointed out. I previously disapproved of WeChat and Alipay in a financial sense because it seemed to me that the relevant companies were just holding onto people's money and not even paying interest, but I see now the benefit for small businesses and whatever.
Still though, it seems to me that missing out on all these technological conveniences that Chinese people have in China also comes with the benefit of missing out on all the government nosiness that comes with that technology. Perhaps the ideal setup is doing things with Chinese friends/colleagues/whoever with the agreement that you pay for everything that accepts cash or credit cards and they handle everything else... although I guess that comes with the problem of how long they are willing to stay as your friends if they are paying for everything
I appreciate this being pointed out. I previously disapproved of WeChat and Alipay in a financial sense because it seemed to me that the relevant companies were just holding onto people's money and not even paying interest, but I see now the benefit for small businesses and whatever.
Still though, it seems to me that missing out on all these technological conveniences that Chinese people have in China also comes with the benefit of missing out on all the government nosiness that comes with that technology. Perhaps the ideal setup is doing things with Chinese friends/colleagues/whoever with the agreement that you pay for everything that accepts cash or credit cards and they handle everything else... although I guess that comes with the problem of how long they are willing to stay as your friends if they are paying for everything
Also, if you're using your linked debit card, then there's no need to store any money with WeChat/Alipay anyway.
Last edited by seanpodge; Apr 29, 2019 at 9:01 am Reason: Furthermore....
Apr 30, 2019, 1:02 am
#64
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,315
The WeChat and Alipay apps both have some financial investment products that offer interest for your savings, but I haven't really looked into that. Doubt you'd be getting rich off of it, but I don't remember my Australian bank account flowing rivers of interest rate gold either.
Also, if you're using your linked debit card, then there's no need to store any money with WeChat/Alipay anyway.
Also, if you're using your linked debit card, then there's no need to store any money with WeChat/Alipay anyway.
May 7, 2019, 7:58 pm
#66
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
You can also get your tickets printed in city offices/travel agencies (literally everywhere) against a small surcharge. Worth to be timing your arrival time to the station much more tightly. Travelling by train in China has become a rather smooth experience (as compared to 15yrs ago..) and if I get the choice between train and flying, will pick the first one in almost all cases.
Back to topic, I never had issues using WeChat Pay even without a linked bank card. To top up, give a friend cash and let him send you 200 RMB red envelopes. Since for larger transactions, accepting cash is never really an issue, this means you can "life" almost forever on a relatively small charge to your WeChat Pay account (say, 50 transactions at 4 RMB each for once single envelope received)
Also, plenty of transportation systems do accept other payments. Shanghai, just as an example, has the Apple Wallet fully integrated. No need for coins or small bills anymore. If you're having UnionPay (even their international versions I believe) you can pay in the bus system of many cities by simple tapping and paying the (usual) 2 RMB fare.
Yes, as a local you're usually having an easier life than as a tourist. But that's pretty much true in the whole world. I'd say for a "basic tourist", China might indeed be a bit hard with all the modern (payment) systems, but if you're a regular visitor/tourist, it's really not much to worry about since there are (easy) ways to set it up.
May 8, 2019, 3:31 am
#67
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
"Back to topic, I never had issues using WeChat Pay even without a linked bank card. To top up, give a friend cash and let him send you 200 RMB red envelopes."
If that works for you today to make QR payments, then you have been curiously grandfathered. See the many previous posts here. It will not work for others today.
If that works for you today to make QR payments, then you have been curiously grandfathered. See the many previous posts here. It will not work for others today.
May 8, 2019, 6:00 pm
#69
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,455
So for accounts (like mine) that used WeChat Pay to receive red envelopes for a while (above 2yrs?) they don't/didn't needed verification and "if you successfully received it in the past, it will stay active"? I don't think thats anyhow "curiously", since I know at least 2 people other than myself that are in the same boat, able to send/receive WeChat Pay envolopes and pay with it, without ever having linked a domestic bank card/account.
Well, I consider myself lucky then.
Considering how much harder financial transactions across the world have become (anti-money laundry laws/tax evading, which are definitely a good thing) I can understand why they don't like an "all allowed by default" policy. However it seems to me that in some cases the barriers for usage are higher than what they necessarely would need to be. But then I suppose the benefits that would be in the game for China overall if allowing easier access to WePay Chat for foreigners are close to non-existant as compared to the existing usage. And as long as most places still accept old-style paper money/coins, it's merely a convenience issue.
It wouldn't surprise me if within 1-2 years there would be a solution available for foreigners where they get to "charge" a pre-paid amount onto WeChat without extra checks (but also no other options but to pay a merchant) or a similar solution for AliPay etc. IF mobile payments become the only accepted currency even at convenience stores, restaurants etc. - I could possibly think of a "neutral" payment app similar to how you can use the Shanghai metro already through Apple Wallet (which basically is exactly that, a pre-pay charge of an amount of cash and use it as you go)
Well, I consider myself lucky then.
Considering how much harder financial transactions across the world have become (anti-money laundry laws/tax evading, which are definitely a good thing) I can understand why they don't like an "all allowed by default" policy. However it seems to me that in some cases the barriers for usage are higher than what they necessarely would need to be. But then I suppose the benefits that would be in the game for China overall if allowing easier access to WePay Chat for foreigners are close to non-existant as compared to the existing usage. And as long as most places still accept old-style paper money/coins, it's merely a convenience issue.
It wouldn't surprise me if within 1-2 years there would be a solution available for foreigners where they get to "charge" a pre-paid amount onto WeChat without extra checks (but also no other options but to pay a merchant) or a similar solution for AliPay etc. IF mobile payments become the only accepted currency even at convenience stores, restaurants etc. - I could possibly think of a "neutral" payment app similar to how you can use the Shanghai metro already through Apple Wallet (which basically is exactly that, a pre-pay charge of an amount of cash and use it as you go)
Jun 8, 2019, 10:45 pm
#70
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1
As of May 2019 I am a foreigner and I can use both Ali Pay and WeChat. How? Simple get a Chinese bank account. I got in day one and at the Beijing Airport at Terminal 3 I went to China Construction Bank and got an account easy with just my passport and Visa and I didn't need to be here on a work visa.
People say you need to be working here which isn't true. Bank Of China said that at the airport but you just need to find the correct bank that doesn't require you to be working like China Construction Bank.
Be prepared to be there for a hour or 2 if you can't read or speak Chinese.
Also even if you decide you don't want to do that and get a bank account there is still a work around to getting WeChat Pay to work WITHOUT a Mainland China bank card.
What you do is do your real name verification ide tifacation with any of your credit cards.
Then have someone send you a red packet. (As of February 2019 new China regulations don't allow people to actually accept the red packet money so getting money that way won't work.) I know you won't be able to accept the red packet because it will say you need a Mainland China bank card. You just need to click it open it to activate the WeChat Pay feature. It doesn't matter about you don't get the money from the red packet.
After 24 hours the person that sent you the red packet will get that money back since you didn't recieve the money.
Then you go online and use one of those 3rd party top up website services which can load your WeChat wallet. Sure you pay fees to do that and costs mlorenajd don't get dollar for dollar but it's a way to get it working without a Mainland China bank card and you can pay merchants.
Now I don't know if the red packet step is needed or you can just use a top up service or not. One of them they require you to add them on chat and I think they send you a red packet.
Later on you may get a message saying if you don't verify who you are by this date WeChat Pay portion will be disabled. All you need to do for that is verify yourself with your passport and it will stay in there.
Also not you can do 2000 ¥ daily buy only have up to 2000 ¥ on your account at a time.
People say you need to be working here which isn't true. Bank Of China said that at the airport but you just need to find the correct bank that doesn't require you to be working like China Construction Bank.
Be prepared to be there for a hour or 2 if you can't read or speak Chinese.
Also even if you decide you don't want to do that and get a bank account there is still a work around to getting WeChat Pay to work WITHOUT a Mainland China bank card.
What you do is do your real name verification ide tifacation with any of your credit cards.
Then have someone send you a red packet. (As of February 2019 new China regulations don't allow people to actually accept the red packet money so getting money that way won't work.) I know you won't be able to accept the red packet because it will say you need a Mainland China bank card. You just need to click it open it to activate the WeChat Pay feature. It doesn't matter about you don't get the money from the red packet.
After 24 hours the person that sent you the red packet will get that money back since you didn't recieve the money.
Then you go online and use one of those 3rd party top up website services which can load your WeChat wallet. Sure you pay fees to do that and costs mlorenajd don't get dollar for dollar but it's a way to get it working without a Mainland China bank card and you can pay merchants.
Now I don't know if the red packet step is needed or you can just use a top up service or not. One of them they require you to add them on chat and I think they send you a red packet.
Later on you may get a message saying if you don't verify who you are by this date WeChat Pay portion will be disabled. All you need to do for that is verify yourself with your passport and it will stay in there.
Also not you can do 2000 ¥ daily buy only have up to 2000 ¥ on your account at a time.
Last edited by Deathbyillusion; Jun 8, 2019 at 10:54 pm
Jun 8, 2019, 11:03 pm
#71
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,045
Jun 11, 2019, 10:51 am
#72
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MAD/LAX/MNL/PIT
Programs: DL DM, PR, TG, UA, CX (Asia Miles), BT, AY, AA
Posts: 906
As of May 2019 I am a foreigner and I can use both Ali Pay and WeChat. How? Simple get a Chinese bank account. I got in day one and at the Beijing Airport at Terminal 3 I went to China Construction Bank and got an account easy with just my passport and Visa and I didn't need to be here on a work visa.
People say you need to be working here which isn't true. Bank Of China said that at the airport but you just need to find the correct bank that doesn't require you to be working like China Construction Bank.
Be prepared to be there for a hour or 2 if you can't read or speak Chinese.
People say you need to be working here which isn't true. Bank Of China said that at the airport but you just need to find the correct bank that doesn't require you to be working like China Construction Bank.
Be prepared to be there for a hour or 2 if you can't read or speak Chinese.
Jun 11, 2019, 11:29 am
#73
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
To DBI: Regarding your no-bank-account alternatives for WeChat: It sounds like you have a Chinese bank account and no need for those alternatives. Have you as a foreigner yourself actually done the no-bank-account procedure you've outlined successfully within the past two months? That is, is your post based on your own very recent first-hand experience?
Jun 11, 2019, 2:56 pm
#74
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 42,045
As of May 2019 I am a foreigner and I can use both Ali Pay and WeChat. How? Simple get a Chinese bank account. I got in day one and at the Beijing Airport at Terminal 3 I went to China Construction Bank and got an account easy with just my passport and Visa and I didn't need to be here on a work visa.
I created a Google sheet in the wikipost to the following thread; feel free to add a line to it, or else respond here with the key details (e.g. bank name/branch, date, your visa type, other accepted visa types if you know), and I can edit it:
Banking and Good banks in the PRC Discussion
Last edited by moondog; Jun 11, 2019 at 3:02 pm