For how much longer will foreigners be second class technological citizens in China?
Apr 21, 2019, 8:39 pm
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,227
The bank account thing seems to be a hit and miss. A few recent accounts (another forum) of people opening and account on first try. Seems to be a random situation.
Soon added to the list of differences between locals and foreigners will be train tickets. Already in place in a few places, there will be no more physical train tickets by the end of the year, except for us.
Soon added to the list of differences between locals and foreigners will be train tickets. Already in place in a few places, there will be no more physical train tickets by the end of the year, except for us.
Apr 22, 2019, 12:55 am
#47
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 353
Have a look at page 2.
But it also says that foreigners can use the e-tickets as well.
Apr 22, 2019, 5:46 am
#48
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: China and Canada
Posts: 1,886
This was announced a few months ago. It is not totally new. Chinese have been able to travel on some trains without tickets for a while. For example, from Nanjing to Shanghai, my in-laws just swipe their id cards instead of a ticket to access the station and the platform. They have been doing this for 2-3 years. This will be extended to the whole train network by the end of the year.
I am just back from China and took several trains. They already changed the security system at the entrance of the station. There used to be someone manually check IDs and tickets, now it is totally automated. People just place their id card against a reader and look at the camera and the gate opens. Entering a station is much faster as a result. I also saw this in Suzhou to access the train platform.
They also do not check tickets on the trains. Conductors have a mobile device and on it they see who is sitting where, where they got on and where they are supposed to get off. They only ask you if you are sitting in what is supposed to be an empty seat.
Foreigners need to go to the booth at the far end and have someone manually check the ticket against the passport information. Not sure about the future.
Last edited by JPDM; Apr 22, 2019 at 5:52 am
Apr 22, 2019, 5:49 am
#49
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: China and Canada
Posts: 1,886
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/news/
Have a look at page 2.
But it also says that foreigners can use the e-tickets as well.
Have a look at page 2.
But it also says that foreigners can use the e-tickets as well.
Apr 22, 2019, 5:31 pm
#50
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 145
I don't have anything useful to contribute to the cultural/social/political discussion, but I'd like to point something out:
You can activate a WeChat wallet (i.e. do the real-name verification thing mentioned above) with a non-Chinese credit card, if you like (you'll get a temporary authorization/hold on your credit card account for a small amount). Of course, you still have to find a way to put funds in your WeChat wallet (perhaps getting someone to give you a red packet, as previously suggested), because as far as I can tell, you can't actually use the credit card for payments.
This choice has been available since sometime in mid-2018; I'm not sure exactly when, but definitely before August.
You can activate a WeChat wallet (i.e. do the real-name verification thing mentioned above) with a non-Chinese credit card, if you like (you'll get a temporary authorization/hold on your credit card account for a small amount). Of course, you still have to find a way to put funds in your WeChat wallet (perhaps getting someone to give you a red packet, as previously suggested), because as far as I can tell, you can't actually use the credit card for payments.
This choice has been available since sometime in mid-2018; I'm not sure exactly when, but definitely before August.
Apr 22, 2019, 9:14 pm
#51
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
Waste of time.
You can bind a foreign credit card, but you cannot open Wechat Wallet, with some exceptions for HK people, unless you have completed real name registration with a Chinese bank card.
As I recall, Wechat and Alipay were fined a good sum last year for not completely following the real-name rules, so don't rely on what was once possible. Read the rules -- I've linked them above -- as they exist today.
You can bind a foreign credit card, but you cannot open Wechat Wallet, with some exceptions for HK people, unless you have completed real name registration with a Chinese bank card.
As I recall, Wechat and Alipay were fined a good sum last year for not completely following the real-name rules, so don't rely on what was once possible. Read the rules -- I've linked them above -- as they exist today.
Last edited by 889; Apr 22, 2019 at 9:37 pm
Apr 23, 2019, 8:12 am
#52
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 145
Waste of time.
You can bind a foreign credit card, but you cannot open Wechat Wallet, with some exceptions for HK people, unless you have completed real name registration with a Chinese bank card.
As I recall, Wechat and Alipay were fined a good sum last year for not completely following the real-name rules, so don't rely on what was once possible. Read the rules -- I've linked them above -- as they exist today.
You can bind a foreign credit card, but you cannot open Wechat Wallet, with some exceptions for HK people, unless you have completed real name registration with a Chinese bank card.
As I recall, Wechat and Alipay were fined a good sum last year for not completely following the real-name rules, so don't rely on what was once possible. Read the rules -- I've linked them above -- as they exist today.
-Particularly agree with 889 about the difference for sellers with WeChat/Alipay compared to Visa/MC in the west. In Australia, the banks and MC/Visa run the rort manage the system to their own benefit. High fees and setup costs are the norm, especially for smaller retailers who don't have the market power to fight back. In China, a guy selling roasted sweet potatoes on the street corner just needs a WeChat account (like nearly everyone else in China) and maybe ¥2 for printing out a QR code and maybe splashing out on laminating it. Transaction fees are also far lower than in the west. Electronic payments are more widespread in China because it essentially costs nothing for both sides of the transaction.
Still though, it seems to me that missing out on all these technological conveniences that Chinese people have in China also comes with the benefit of missing out on all the government nosiness that comes with that technology. Perhaps the ideal setup is doing things with Chinese friends/colleagues/whoever with the agreement that you pay for everything that accepts cash or credit cards and they handle everything else... although I guess that comes with the problem of how long they are willing to stay as your friends if they are paying for everything
Apr 23, 2019, 10:37 am
#53
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...
Still though, it seems to me that missing out on all these technological conveniences that Chinese people have in China also comes with the benefit of missing out on all the government nosiness that comes with that technology. Perhaps the ideal setup is doing things with Chinese friends/colleagues/whoever with the agreement that you pay for everything that accepts cash or credit cards and they handle everything else... although I guess that comes with the problem of how long they are willing to stay as your friends if they are paying for everything
Still though, it seems to me that missing out on all these technological conveniences that Chinese people have in China also comes with the benefit of missing out on all the government nosiness that comes with that technology. Perhaps the ideal setup is doing things with Chinese friends/colleagues/whoever with the agreement that you pay for everything that accepts cash or credit cards and they handle everything else... although I guess that comes with the problem of how long they are willing to stay as your friends if they are paying for everything
Apr 23, 2019, 4:32 pm
#54
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: LON
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Even once you have a bank account it's hardly plain sailing. I have a Chinese bank account with UnionPay debit card, and still can't use either WeChat Pay or AliPay.
My WeChat registration is blocked for "security verification" until I can find another user who's had a clear account for 6 months.
And I can't add my debit card to AliPay because I can't work out the exact characters that my bank has used for my name, passport number and phone number. Why they need all this information to match exactly just so I can buy a coffee, I have no idea...
So for now I'm stuck with either my UnionPay card or cash.
My WeChat registration is blocked for "security verification" until I can find another user who's had a clear account for 6 months.
And I can't add my debit card to AliPay because I can't work out the exact characters that my bank has used for my name, passport number and phone number. Why they need all this information to match exactly just so I can buy a coffee, I have no idea...
So for now I'm stuck with either my UnionPay card or cash.
Apr 23, 2019, 6:26 pm
#55
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
Yes!
And even once you find a "friend" to vouch for you on Wechat, they may ask for a second "friend" or tell you your "friends" have to be local in some way to where you are, whatever that means. (I had this exact problem with Wechat, gave it up, then tried again many many months later and it all went through without a hitch.)
As to Alipay, get your name and such as they appear in the bank records from those slips of paper you got when you opened your account. Capitalization counts. Note that if the bank shortened your name you'll probably have a problem, since Alipay wants to see the same precise name on bank account and passport. Exactness counts because matching is done by computer without fuzzy reasoning.
And even once you find a "friend" to vouch for you on Wechat, they may ask for a second "friend" or tell you your "friends" have to be local in some way to where you are, whatever that means. (I had this exact problem with Wechat, gave it up, then tried again many many months later and it all went through without a hitch.)
As to Alipay, get your name and such as they appear in the bank records from those slips of paper you got when you opened your account. Capitalization counts. Note that if the bank shortened your name you'll probably have a problem, since Alipay wants to see the same precise name on bank account and passport. Exactness counts because matching is done by computer without fuzzy reasoning.
Last edited by 889; Apr 23, 2019 at 6:32 pm
Apr 23, 2019, 6:51 pm
#56
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
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Posts: 6,679
How to Wx and Ali handle the other useful thing that credit cards do (other than providing rewards)? If you are dissatisfied with a product or service received, how do you do a chargeback?
Apr 23, 2019, 7:09 pm
#57
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,097
It's like cash, just like cash. Think debit card, not credit card.
With Alipay, when you buy stuff on Taobao or TMall, your funds stay in escrow till you key in the release code, or a certain number of days elapse after delivery and you haven't either filed a claim or released the funds.
On Wechat (and Alipay), the merchant can always return all or part of the funds. But you have to deal with the merchant.
With Alipay, when you buy stuff on Taobao or TMall, your funds stay in escrow till you key in the release code, or a certain number of days elapse after delivery and you haven't either filed a claim or released the funds.
On Wechat (and Alipay), the merchant can always return all or part of the funds. But you have to deal with the merchant.
Apr 23, 2019, 10:25 pm
#58
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,315
Apr 28, 2019, 5:52 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
I came from 1st tier Guangzhou and am currently in Yiwu (2nd tier?). I come to China at least twice a year and have long accepted that I need to carry cash. For the most part, I have not has any issues paying in cash...until last night. I was at a major Yiwu mall and tried to buy bottled water from a smallish grocery store as it was closing. I asked an employee where the cashier was and he pointed to a QR Code. I told him I didn’t have wechat pay and he said he can take the cash if I didn’t need a receipt. I said I didn’t need one and handed him the money. As I was leaving, I saw him scan the QR code so I’m guessing he helped me out by using his wechat pay to pay for my water. He could’ve just easy shrugged his shoulders and left me on my own.