Red259

Ok so I am considering taking a flight a couple days later as right now my trip is three weeks long which is a bit more than what I had wanted. In addition, my current flight has me landing the day before labor day, which would probably have me fighting massive crowds at most tourist locations. I can catch a flight where I end up landing in PVG around 11 something in the morning on 5/3 a Thursday at the tail end of the holiday. I replaced ZJJ with Huangshan, because it just seemed like a hassle to get out there and back with not much beyond the park to see in the area. Is this a mistake?

Day 1 (5/3) Arrive in Shanghai around lunch. Take care of logistics

Day 2 Shanghai (night in Shanghai)

Day 3 Suzhou and water towns (I'm a bit confused here what would be the best water town to visit, is this a daytrip or would I need to stay in Suzhou? Since this is a Sat night I would like to partake in the nightlife would it be better to head back to Shanghai?)

Day 4 Suzhou or Shanghai to Hangzhou (spend night in Hangzhou)

Day 5 travel from Hangzhou to Huangshan (night in Huangshan)

Day 6 Huangshan (night in Huangshan?)

Day 7-10 not sure what to do with these days. I can apply them to other places listed or new places. I was also thinking about trying to fit Nanjing in there somewhere. I could add Saturday to Shanghai or maybe head to Nanjing on Sat (or sun) and spend the night there?

Day 11 depart depending on the proposed route I can look to see I would look to see if I can get a flight from there leaving the country. Obviously I can depart from shanghai. I may also be able to catch a flight out from Nanjing and potentially other cities. If I didn't mention an obvious stop off point that is worth visiting in the area its probably because I don't know about it not that I am not interested.

889

I wouldn't call Suzhou a big nightlife place. The touristy section of Hangzhou is lively on weekends when lots of Shanghai people arrive.

Look into Yangzhou. Nothing wrong with Nanjing, but smaller places can be easier to handle.

The "old towns" vaguely around Huangshan aren't nearly as crowded as those around Shanghai; they can be packed.

Red259

Are you saying Yangzhou in addition to Nanjing or instead of?

889

If you like big cities, then head to Nanjing. It seemed to me, though, that with Shanghai and Hangzhou in there, that perhaps a smaller place would provide some contrast. Myself, I like smaller over larger places in China, so I have a bias.

Of course if time permits, you could hit both places. But again, my bias is to avoid moving around too much in China: it's a hassle and consumes quite a bit of time.

moondog

I went to Hangzhou last weekend with my mom and uncle (for the first time in 10 years). We hired a small boat that brought us to the west portion of West Lake, which was a highlight. The weekend traffic was insane to the extent that is worth avoiding.

Red259

is it the entire weekend like that or does it start really clearing out by Sunday afternoon so that if I went there Sunday morning and spent the night it woudn't be that bad?

jiejie

Within your itinerary, the worst places to be on the weekend would be Huangshan, followed by Hangzhou and Suzhou gardens. This is what I would suggest, which involves flipping around your itinerary:
Day 1 5/3 Thursday. Arrival Shanghai 11 a.m. Process in and take immediate transport to Suzhou. Up to you whether to take the Airport Bus directly to Suzhou, or deal with getting to Hongqiao and taking a fast train. You can deal with logistics once you get to Suzhou, such as buying train tickets for other segments. Overnight: Suzhou.
Day 2 5/4 Friday. Suzhou all day. I'd definitely hit the Humble Administrator's Garden when it opens at 07:30 before the bus crowds, and Master of Nets Garden either at lunch time or late afternoon. Plenty of other sights to choose from. Another overnight Suzhou.
Day 3 5/5 Saturday Morning fast train Suzhou-Nanjing. I am partial to Nanjing--some of the nicest people in China, good food, quite a bit to see. Day there and evening in the fun area around Fuzimiao. Overnight Nanjing.
Day 4 5/6 Sunday Another day Nanjing--or if you must, do a daytrip to Yangzhou which isn't far away. Overnight Nanjing.
Day 5 5/7 Monday Morning intercity coach 07:00 Nanjing to (Tangkou) Huangshan Mountain. This takes about 4.5 hours including a break/stop. Arrive Tangkou for lunch then head up mountain. Midday, cable cars shouldn't have queues up and the weekend crowds will be gone. Full afternoon hiking mountain, overnight on summit.
Day 6 5/8 Tuesday Morning and part of afternoon on Mt. Huangshan. 15:00 head back down to Tangkou and car/taxi/bus to Huangshan City (Tunxi) for a look around the old part of the city, and overnight.
Day 7 5/9 Wednesday Get car/driver and early start (07:30) to Hongcun village for a few hours followed by Xidi village (alternative villages available). Return to Huangshan City and have driver drop you at Intercity Bus station for the 16:50 express coach to Hangzhou. This takes 3 hours by expressway including a brief break/stop. Overnight Hangzhou.
Day 8 5/10 Thursday Hangzhou full day. Another overnight Hangzhou.
Day 9 5/11 Friday Wuzhen water town as a 2/3 daytrip, it's about an hour away by road. Probably easiest to just do Hangzhou and back, there are direct buses all day long. Or take a fast train from Hangzhou to Jiaxing, park your stuff somewhere (rail station?) taxi Jiaxing-Wuzhen. Either way, final step in late afternoon would be high speed train Hangzhou-Shanghai or Jiaxing-Shanghai. Overnight Shanghai.
Day 10 5/12 Saturday Shanghai.
Day 11 5/13 Sunday Depart Shanghai.

That's what I would do for time, cost, efficiency, and miss-the-worst-crowds reasons. It also streamlines the hotel bookings (2 nt Suzhou, 2 nt Nanjing, 1 nt each Huangshan summit and Huangshan city but hard to avoid that), 2 nts Hangzhou, 2 nts Shanghai.

889

If you do hit Nanjing, I'll mention that my favourite place there by far is Xuanwuhu Park, set on a series of islands right in the centre of the city. Very beautiful, and vast enough to absorb the crowds.

Red259

Thank you for the suggestions. I had booked my hotel for the first three nights in Shanghai but I can change those reservations without cost. I am a bit worried about going straight to Suzhou on day one since I will have been travelling for 21+ hours before I even set foot on the bus. I did an internet search about the bus you mentioned and it seems pretty straight forward, but then when I get to Suzhou I would need to find my hotel etc. I do like the idea of Nanjing. Is there a bus schedule somewhere that shows the times etc for Nanjing to Tangkou? I'm not a fan of long distance buses so 4.5 hours is up near my limit unless there is a lot of leg room. My experience with buses in some asian countries (vietnam comes to mind) has been pretty painful with being crammed in a bus for hours and hours and unable to stretch my legs. I would also have my luggage with me when I arrive in Tangkou and its not a backpack its a rolling case, so I'm not sure how the terrain is for getting up to the summit and how difficult it will be to get to a place to stay with all my gear. Is it right near the cable cars or is there considerable hiking to get to where most the locations to stay are? How much would a drive be for the small towns like Xidi etc on day 7? Where would I find one? Wuzhen is the best water town?

moondog

Saturday traffic was definitely worse than Sunday traffic, but both days were worse than I've ever experienced in Beijing (as a frame of reference). If it weren't for my mom's age, we probably could have availed of Mobike to get around West Lake, but even this would have been a challenge, due to the large number of pedestrians. The bottom line is that when the weather is nice on weekends, count on BIG crowds.

moondog

Shanghai is a good city for weekends IMO. Nanjing is also okay. Suzhou and Hangzhou are places to visit on weekdays.

I suggest you consider staying in Shanghai for night #1 at a hotel on Line 10 (my mom lived at the Yu Garden Ren, which is directly across the street from the subway) or Line 2, and then taking a train to Suzhou or Hangzhou the next day. Book first class on the train; it only costs Y40 more than second class.

jiejie

Responses to your concerns:
1) I stand by my recommendation to skip over Shanghai and go directly to Suzhou. If you've traveled for 21 hours, you can travel for just a few more. You can always use the airport shuttle Pudong-Hongqiao and take the next fast train, though I think it will be a wash timewise and more effort, compared with the direct Pudong-Suzhou bus.

2) As far as finding your hotel in Suzhou--you bring along a printout of the hotel name and address in Chinese, and show it to the cab driver at the taxi queue. No different than what you'd do in Shanghai, so I'm a bit baffled by that comment.

3) Nanjing-Tangkou/Huangshan Scenic or Huangshan City buses: Using Ctrip's Chinese website bus schedule that is showing buses from Nanjing South Bus Station to Tangkou (Huangshan Scenic) at 07:00, 10:50. From Nanjing East Rail Station to Tangkou at 14:10. From Nanjing Main Bus Station to Tangkou/Huangshan Scenic at 14:30. From Nanjing Main Bus Station to Huangshan City (about 1 hour from the scenic area) at 08:00, 15:20, 17:30. Remember that bus schedules can change slightly with the seasons, so it pays to ask and buy the departure ticket on the first day you're in Nanjing. Other Chinese bus websites seem to confirm this at least for upcoming days in April. I should think May will be quite similar. Most of the English-language websites that attempt to identify bus schedules aren't reliably kept up. This is one journey that I would do by coach vs wasting time/cash trying to make a journey conform to the rail system. These are the sort of touring buses where your luggage goes in the cargo hold below, you take your small stuff (valuables) with you into the passenger compartment. I would bring earplugs in case it's a coach where they decide to show a (loud) movie. Buses vary on leg room--I've seem some a bit tight and some that NBA basketball players would endorse. The Nanjing-Tangkou buses normally makes stops in Ma'anshan and Wuhu where stretch/smoke/bathroom breaks can happen, so it's not like 4+ hours of solid sitting. To be clear, this is an intercity coach service, not the local chicken bus experience
.
4) Nobody takes their luggage up the mountain when visiting Huangshan. Besides getting up to the top, all accommodation is some distance away (via lots of steps) from cable car stations. At most, take a small daypack with a change of underwear/shirt, essential toiletries, and electronics/ valuables. There's a Left Luggage at Tangkou Bus/Shuttle station where I think it's RMB 15 per day for large and 10 per day for smaller suitcases. If you change your schedule so that it makes sense to stay in Tangkou or Tunxi (Huangshan City) for the first night, you can always leave your luggage at the hotel/guesthouse for no charge, even if you've checked out. Remember that you can visit the Mountain as a daytrip and stay at Tangkou and/or Tunxi instead and then luggage is a nonissue. To do a daytrip successfully, you'll need an early start so you're at the cable cars when they open, and come down late in the afternoon using a different cable car route, but it is doable. Advantages are cheaper price since summit accommodation is very overpriced for what you get (and prebooking is essential if you want to stay anywhere on the summit). Disadvantage is you miss sunsets/sunrise....though witnessing that is also dependent on weather conditions. There is no question that the most comfortable lodging in the area in all price ranges, is in Tunxi/Huangshan City vs at the mountain or at the Yixian villages. But plenty of people decide to trade comfort for experience. Horses for courses, it's your call.

5) Yixian villages, of which the most well-known are Hongcun and Xidi but there are more. This area is about an hour's drive from Huangshan city, distances between the villages are not that far (30 min between Hongcun and Xidi which are the farthest apart). I think each of these two villages deserves about 3 hours' each of exploration. With additional time, visiting Mukeng which is a short drive from Hongcun, and walking the 1.5 hour circuit through bamboo forest to get from parking area to the village and out again, is a nice add-on but you may not have time. When I did this, I just bargained for a flat rate with a Huangshan city taxi driver the day before, for a 07:00 pickup at my Tunxi hotel, driving me to Hongcun (wait), Mukeng (wait) and Xidi (wait) then a 16:00 drop off back at Tunxi. My notes say I paid RMB 300 for this. I was able to do this myself as my Mandarin is up to the task, but a guesthouse/hotel could probably work something for you....just assume the price has gone up due to inflation. On top of that, paid my own entry fees at the villages and snacks/lunch as I explored. You can also arrange/prearrange a private car/driver for the day.

6) Wuzhen is a very good water town to visit. I'm not sure there is a "best" but I'd pick one that is big enough to have some meat to it and room for exploration and a variety of street and canal views, and that has not been completely rebuilt like a Disney stage set (Zhouzhuang, cough-cough). Xitang is another good one that is in the Hangzhou-Shanghai belt. You don't really need to visit more than one to get the idea. Ideally, try to visit during the weekday not weekend (hence my itinerary order). Here's their official website: Wuzhen Water Town and getting out of Wuzhen is pretty much the reverse of getting in. If you take your stuff from Hangzhou to Wuzhen and park it somewhere, you can get a direct "luxury" coach from Wuzhen back to Shanghai which would be more convenient than futzing around in train stations. Some people do prefer to stay the night in Wuzhen so they can experience the place in the evening and early morning when day tourists aren't around. If you want to consider this, then on 5/10 late afternoon, I would depart Hangzhou and not stay the second night there, and go to Wuzhen and spend the night there.

Hope that covers your questions/concerns.

Red259

As a general rule do you always suggest to book first class on trains or is it just for this specific train since the price difference is minimal?

889

Perhaps I'm not as fussy as others here, but I've never upgraded to first class. The important point, regardless which class you book, is to make sure you've got a seat.

Red259

Thank you for the detailed response. I'm researching whether or not I wish to stay on the summit. What I may do is head directly to Tunxi on the first day and explore there. Dedicate the second day to the mountain and return to tunxi that night and then dedicate the third day to visiting the villages. I may also swap day 2 and 3 around depending on weather forecasts since I take it that if its raining the better play would be to head out to the villages than up the mountain. I kinda figured you only really need to see one water town to get a good sense of it. How difficult would it be to swap Xitang for Wuzhen?