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Delta STILL does not understand the TWOV rules

Delta STILL does not understand the TWOV rules

Old Mar 12, 15, 2:57 pm
  #1  
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Delta STILL does not understand the TWOV rules

I was ticketed on one DL ticket for USA-NRT-PVG-USA, using (all DL marketed and DL operated) nonstop flights NRT-PVG, approximately 68 hours in Shanghai, and PVG-DTW nonstop.

Nevertheless the GA and redcoat insisted that this could not be 72 hour TWOV because Shanghai cannot be a transit point, although my routing would have qualified for 24 hour TWOV. They said that to do 72 hour TWOV I would need to go to some other country like Thailand that requires a visa.

They asked me whether I had called the US Embassy in China (NOT a Chinese consulate or embassy in the USA) and then the redcoat talked with a CBP guy who asserted that you cannot go to China without a visa.

I tried to show various printouts, including a printout from the SkyTeam link to TIMATIC done yesterday. I also had other printouts from Chinese consulates, etc. but the redcoat insisted that she was using "DL's own version of TIMATIC" properly.

The fact that I had done 72 hour TWOV earlier on exactly the same routing, and could show the TWOV stamps in my passport, made no difference since she claimed that the rules on this had changed this year.

WOW! So much for the suggestion that TWOV is easier now because the airlines have become accustomed to it.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:28 pm
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How did you get on board eventually?
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:07 pm
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I did not. I stood at the gate waiting and arguing but the redcoat refused to let me board and she also said that the guy who made the decision was in meetings all day today so I could not talk with him. I watched the flight leave. BTW, this was a paid ticket, in business class, and with my favorite seats reserved.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:31 pm
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All the more reason to get the unlimited entry China visa for 16USd per year.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:58 pm
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
All the more reason to get the unlimited entry China visa for 16USd per year.
Plus all of the visa service agency fees and charges for those who do not live and work in a city with a Chinese consulate.

In my case, the visa service agencies wouldn't get me a ten year visa because my passport was expiring in 12-14 months, which they said has been leading to denials at the Chicago office but without a clear line about exactly far the passport must be from expiration.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Plus all of the visa service agency fees and charges for those who do not live and work in a city with a Chinese consulate.

In my case, the visa service agencies wouldn't get me a ten year visa because my passport was expiring in 12-14 months, which they said has been leading to denials at the Chicago office but without a clear line about exactly far the passport must be from expiration.
Yes, some countries won't allow you to enter on a visa waiver if your passport is expiring in 6 months or less.

I would think Delta should offer some compensation for their provable error.

Seems the going rate for visa processors is 50 bucks plus mailing fees.
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Old Mar 13, 15, 8:39 am
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Originally Posted by anacapamalibu View Post
Yes, some countries won't allow you to enter on a visa waiver if your passport is expiring in 6 months or less.

I would think Delta should offer some compensation for their provable error.

Seems the going rate for visa processors is 50 bucks plus mailing fees.
This wasn't the situation. I couldn't get the ten year China visa because the passport was too close to one year to expiration. Then I got the new passport but it was close to my travel date. Getting the Chinese visa and my new passport back in time would have been risky or I could have paid exorbitant fees for same day expedited visa processing with no guarantee that the Chinese consulate would do it.

Given this, I decided to apply for the ten year visa before some later trip and use the 72 hour TWOV again this time since my itinerary clearly qualified for 72 hour TWOV.

For example, G3 would have charged $224 for only two day visa processing (plus an additional $30 consular fee) and they wanted to also add on an additional fee of $175 to check my application in advance. This is the visa service agency that I used before and that my employer recommends for China visas.

Mychinavisa would have charged a $259 fee (in addition to $30 more for the consulate) plus $29 for ordinary FedEx, again with no guarantees that I would have my passport and visa returned in time.

Last edited by MSPeconomist; Mar 13, 15 at 8:51 am Reason: added price information
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Old Mar 13, 15, 8:50 am
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I think "own version" refers to Delta needing to rely on what their system shows. They can't accept printouts as they could be out of date or doctored. TIMATIC doesn't have different versions of the database.

Did the Red Coat show you the screen she was seeing?
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Old Mar 13, 15, 8:55 am
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Originally Posted by TTT View Post
I think "own version" refers to Delta needing to rely on what their system shows. They can't accept printouts as they could be out of date or doctored. TIMATIC doesn't have different versions of the database.

Did the Red Coat show you the screen she was seeing?
No, she did not show me. She insisted that it was DL's own version. I kept telling her to enter China as the transit point and she said that it didn't matter, that the system would not allow that. For China to be a transit, I needed to go someone where else after that required a visa, like Thailand. She seemed to be swiping my passport at her computer terminal.
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Old Mar 13, 15, 9:24 am
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I think they are looking at the USA NRT PVG flight as USA PVG.

Everyone who has done it know Chinese look at your itinerary as NRT PVG DTW
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Old Mar 13, 15, 10:48 am
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Originally Posted by tentseller View Post
I think they are looking at the USA NRT PVG flight as USA PVG.

Everyone who has done it know Chinese look at your itinerary as NRT PVG DTW
That seems to explain this situation, but Delta in the US is unlikely to process the info as just Japan-US via China.
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Old Mar 13, 15, 11:08 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
This wasn't the situation. I couldn't get the ten year China visa because the passport was too close to one year to expiration. Then I got the new passport but it was close to my travel date. Getting the Chinese visa and my new passport back in time would have been risky or I could have paid exorbitant fees for same day expedited visa processing with no guarantee that the Chinese consulate would do it.

Given this, I decided to apply for the ten year visa before some later trip and use the 72 hour TWOV again this time since my itinerary clearly qualified for 72 hour TWOV.

For example, G3 would have charged $224 for only two day visa processing (plus an additional $30 consular fee) and they wanted to also add on an additional fee of $175 to check my application in advance. This is the visa service agency that I used before and that my employer recommends for China visas.

Mychinavisa would have charged a $259 fee (in addition to $30 more for the consulate) plus $29 for ordinary FedEx, again with no guarantees that I would have my passport and visa returned in time.

Easier, if the consulate and passport offices are local.
Went to federal passport office on Monday, picked up passport on Tuesday
took it to China consulate and picked it up on Wednesday. (48 hour total turn around)
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Old Mar 13, 15, 12:59 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Plus all of the visa service agency fees and charges for those who do not live and work in a city with a Chinese consulate.

In my case, the visa service agencies wouldn't get me a ten year visa because my passport was expiring in 12-14 months, which they said has been leading to denials at the Chicago office but without a clear line about exactly far the passport must be from expiration.
Interesting, I used mychinavisa.com (Houston office) in December, with only 12 months and 3 weeks left until passport expired. They told me as long as I had 12 months, the Consulate would process for a 10-year visa. Sorry that Chicago Consulate seems to have different perception.

As soon as you renew that passport though, you should consider getting the 10-year visa and leave TWOV use behind, as you seem to visit/pass through China enough to warrant the expense.

Sorry for your experience though. You seem to unearth all of Delta's storehouse of the stubborn + ignorant. I should think you have a good case for recourse.
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Old Mar 14, 15, 5:07 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
I did not. I stood at the gate waiting and arguing but the redcoat refused to let me board and she also said that the guy who made the decision was in meetings all day today so I could not talk with him. I watched the flight leave. BTW, this was a paid ticket, in business class, and with my favorite seats reserved.
Yikes, wow. You going to try to get compensated?
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Old Mar 14, 15, 6:35 pm
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Originally Posted by tentseller View Post
I think they are looking at the USA NRT PVG flight as USA PVG.

Everyone who has done it know Chinese look at your itinerary as NRT PVG DTW
This is likely the key point (I.e. Japan to USA via China is all that matters).

@msp: I'm guessing you did stress this, but even if you didn't, that's not your responsibility. I encourage you to right things with DL.
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