Chinatrvl

Mrs. and I will completely move to Jilin province later this year, for at least two years. We don't have a lot of stuff to move, but enough to warrant a "Less-than-a-Container-Load"-shipment.

After contacting several movers and shipping companies, it appears that the actual shipping is quite cheap. However, they quote horrendous amounts for clearing customs in China and transporting the goods to our new home. I guess we could do the latter ourselves - but never having done this before, I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this.

- Has anybody shipped (air/sea) a container or LCL to China and dealt with Chinese customs? I can imagine this to be either a very simple process or a very regulated and formal process with all the 'typical Chinese' pitfalls.

- Has anyone chartered a large van or truck (and a driver for two days)? I don't really think this is a big problem, but somebody may have some experiences?

Thanks for all input!

jiejie

Are you coming for employment? Do you have a Resident Permit yet? If not, and you are trying to do a major household move on a different kind of visa, you might have some issues. There have also been some changes in the last year in Customs regulations on inbound (and outbound) shipments...mostly unfavorable and costly to anybody shipping stuff in or out. There is absolutely a process and while the concept is relatively straightforward, the execution can be painful and drawn out. Once stuff is cleared, hiring a truck and a crew of movers for a day or so is very easy, even on short notice--this is the least of your worries.

One game Chinese customs likes to play is to hold your goods in a warehouse for a few weeks (purposely racking up ridiculous daily fees) while you jump through hoops fixing your "not acceptable" paperwork to their satisfaction. One of the reasons to pay outrageous fees to an international mover is to have them expedite and clear the shipment through Customs, but your wallet will cry if you are paying for it on your own.

I strongly, strongly urge you--if you will be in China for less than 3-4 years--to really look at whatever it is you are thinking about bringing over, and see if you can do without. I cannot imagine why for a relatively short period of time, anybody would need to bring much more over than clothes, shoes, medicines, critical professional books/instruments, and a family picture or two. You may find that if you and wife can manage to put everything in 3-4 large suitcases apiece (i.e. 6-8 big checked bags) plus valuables in carryons, then fly over, that the airline excess baggage fees will be well worth it--as it's so much easier to get stuff through Customs at the airport as accompanied baggage than as separate shipment. If you can do this, then all you'd need is a van pickup at the airport that can accommodate you + stuff. Pare down, pare down. There is very little essential stuff that you can't find these days, even if it means a trip to Beijing and then send the stuff back to Jilin by rail or truck freight if it's too much volume to carry.

To illustrate: Had some friends, family of 5 (parents + three school age kids) move to Beijing for 4 years. Only thing they shipped via UPS were 3 25-kg UPS boxes with professional books and certain difficult-to-find-in-China kids' educational stuff. Personal items and critical papers they brought over with them in suitcases. All household stuff (sporadic furniture, linens, kitchenware, anything electrical/motorized, etc) sourced locally and inexpensively with intent of dispensing with in China before departing. Worked out fine. It can be done.

moondog

Around 10 years ago, I helped a friend in SH decorate his place with antique furniture (opium beds, screens, chairs, tables, etc). When he returned to the US, he sold the stuff for a handsome profit.

Taiwaned

Mrs and I have moved twice from Canada to Taiwan and just recently to China.

Must echo jiejie''s feelings. Don't bring stuff unless you really need it. If you include the cost of shipping and transport, it is easier to purchase it new here. Many of the gadgets don't work anyway because of the difference in electrical power.

Every time we go back to visit family, we bring back the maximum weight for luggage filled with stuff we have decided we still want but can't find. Mostly to do with food or cooking utensils.

As for shipping within China, this can be a horror show. The moving company may quote you one price but after they have your stuff, they suddenly add "taxes, surcharges and fees" which if you do not pay, you don't see your stuff. (This happened to my workmate)

Chinatrvl

Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-S8000/S8000XXIG3 SHP/VPP/R5 Jasmine/1.0 Nextreaming SMM-MMS/1.2.0 profile/MIDP-2.1 configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Thanks for your replies.
Maybe I should have provided more information.

We fulfill the necessary requirements to import our households stuff to China and I am aware of any regulations.
It's my sixth time moving to China, but the first time with Mrs. and also the first time for a continuous period longer than 8 months.

Coming from Europe, we do not have issues with electrical appliances. A EU contract will also avoid issues with undisclosed fees at the logistics company.

From my experience and judging from mrs. packing list, moving with checked bagged only will not work - mostly due to size and weight. I'd prefer this option as well, but unfortunately had to come to the conclusion that it will not just be impractical but also more expensive than a full door to door shipping service.

What I specifically would like to find out is how much of a pain Chinese customs are. particularly when a private individual - instead of a large company - has to deal with them.

Chinatrvl

Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-S8000/S8000XXIG3 SHP/VPP/R5 Jasmine/1.0 Nextreaming SMM-MMS/1.2.0 profile/MIDP-2.1 configuration/CLDC-1.1)

Thanks for your replies.
Maybe I should have provided more information.

We fulfill the necessary requirements to import our households stuff to China and I am aware of any regulations.
It's my sixth time moving to China, but the first time with Mrs. and also the first time for a continuous period longer than 8 months.

Coming from Europe, we do not have issues with electrical appliances. A EU contract will also avoid issues with undisclosed fees at the logistics company.

From my experience and judging from mrs. packing list, moving with checked bagged only will not work - mostly due to size and weight. I'd prefer this option as well, but unfortunately had to come to the conclusion that it will not just be impractical but also more expensive than a full door to door shipping service.

What I specifically would like to find out is how much of a pain Chinese customs are. particularly when a private individual - instead of a large company - has to deal with them.

Chinatrvl

Wirelessly posted (SAMSUNG-S8000/S8000XXIG3 SHP/VPP/R5 Jasmine/1.0 Nextreaming SMM-MMS/1.2.0 profile/MIDP-2.1 configuration/CLDC-1.1)

sorry, mobile posting is a bit tricky.



Has anyone experience with them, and how likely are,they going to pull off stunts like holding back cargo and charging ridiculous fees for storage, etc? Any First hand experiences?

jiejie

Unless an FT reader has brought stuff in since regulations were last changed in August 2010, not sure anyone can answer your last question accurately and on point. If you ask a dozen people what their experience was moving to China, you'll likely get a dozen different answers. Too many variables: source country, moving company used, local Chinese agent used, actual port of arrival, time of year, Customs official handling your shipment paperwork, etc. I suspect your question is better put to an expat forum dealing with China, as only a small subset of FT'ers will have direct experience actually doing a major household move to China and especially under a private contract.

I will say this: there is a reason that moving companies charge big fees to clear Chinese Customs and do the local logistics to save the shipper the trouble. I think it would be prudent to expect some sort of hassle and additional fees you didn't expect, if you need to personally do the work to bail your goods out of Chinese Customs. If your ultimate destination is somewhere in Jilin province, then I expect port of entry for your goods will be Tanggu (Tianjin) or possibly Dalian. Understand that with the do-it-yourself method, you may well have to personally go to the port of entry Customs facility to deal with importation formalities. If you are up to speed on the regulations as you posted already, then you should know what duties you might (emphasis on might) be liable for, depending on goods brought in and mood of your Customs official that day. Doing the logistics yourself on the Chinese end will take your time, patience, and you'll need a fluent Chinese speaker and reader on your side (if you are not).

You have to make your own judgment on shipping methodology, but I have a really hard time believing that with a well-chosen selection of essential goods placed in extra suitcases (or even boxes) and brought in with you, would be more expensive than door to door service of an international mover. I suspect the answer lies in pruning that list down and having a heart-to-heart with your Mrs. on the meaning of "essential." I've seen way too many people bring piles of stuff over, only to regret it with "what the heck was I thinking..." moments afterwards.

mnredfox

I had an air shipment come into China, but did not have to declare what was in it per say. The rules state that there are strict limits on electronic goods, books, and disks (CD, DVDs). I originally was told by my company that my shipment would take a few days to clear customs and that I would have to go down to sign for some things, but as things often happen in China they magically cleared customs faster than expected, I never had to pay a thing, and I got everything of mine.

I will warn you though, don't expect everything to arrive and if you expect food don't expect some of it to not disappear.

I echo the advice of others, ship as little as you can, you'll be able to buy almost anything when you get there that you need with exception of meds and toiletries.

jiejie

An air shipment is normally less problematic than a sea shipment from a clearance standpoint, and has the added bonus of not being tied to a seaport. With the OP talking about "less than container-load" and having size/weight concerns, I'm assuming he is planning a sea shipment.

When I moved to Beijing, I pared everything down to 9 air-shipped boxes (paid for by my then-employer), but Chinese Customs in Beijing was still not happy with how the inventory manifest had been laid out, so I had to recast it in a different format...every single item, origin, purchase location, and valuation. Also justify why I needed 9 boxes when I was in on a 6 month F visa (back then, I was setting up the company WFOE so was on biz visa not yet on Work/Rez Permit--but this was quite a few years ago). While me and Customs were sparring back and forth, about 2 weeks elapsed with an extra $400 in warehouse charges accruing due to delay. I did get all my stuff though, without incoming duty charges. Back then they were pretty lenient on not charging duty on incoming foreigners' personal goods, but rumor has it this is no longer the case. Two or three of my boxes appeared to have been peeked into, but nothing showed signs of being ransacked.

Of the family I mentioned above who sent 3 UPS boxes (actually to my office address as they had not yet arrived in Beijing), every box had been opened and thoroughly tossed by Chinese Customs (most items were books). One box was nearly destroyed so I had to repack, having no idea if anything was taken or not. When the family arrived and took a look, they thought everything was there, as best as they could remember since they didn't do a title-by-title manifest.

Chinatrvl

Thanks for all the replies and the advice. We will be elborating which mode of transport is the best way to get our belongings to China.

Just a note and some numbers, except KL/AF/CZ all other EU/Chinese airlines to and from China have a weight concept for baggage, not a piece concept. Therefore, every additional kg exceeding the baggage allowance is approx. 30 Euro (!). However, all your arguments against using a sea shipping made me elaborate actually booking a KL/AF business seat (which is arguably one of the best products around ) - and comes with 3 pieces + 1 for ST Elites � 23 kg.

A large tracable and insured air freight box (DHL) is around 250 Euro.

You can easily find out what is taxed, what you can bring without having to pay customs, and what is prohibited (this includes food and more than 100 CDs btw) by asking your Chinese embassy (they have a leaflet) or looking up the information at www.iamovers.org

Thank you again for all input.