amerikajin777

Hey Errybody,

I'm going to BJ at the end of this month for work but will have two weekends there (and evenings of course). Having only gone to HK before, i'm having a really difficult time trying to figure out how much i'm going to spend there.

I remember going to Thailand and it seemed that i could have a feast for almost nothing and then going to Japan and a lunch for less than $20 was really hard to find. Where does Beijing fall in that? How much does a nice dinner with a beer or two cost?

Also, i'm hoping to get some custom tailored shirts. I've heard of people bringing one in to 'copy,' but i'm a little confused. My favorite shirt is a Burberry, and i was thinking about bringing it to 'copy' but i'd want the copy to be my perfect size. Does this happen?

moondog

Well, BJ was listed as the most expensive city for expats to live in the world in the mid 90s, but I think a lot of that was driven by the fact that foreigners were only allowed to live in approved housing at the time, which fetched a substantial premium.

In more practical terms, Beijing is substantially cheaper than Shanghai, Hong Kong, Seoul, and Tokyo. I spend around $50 per day in Beijing on food, drinks, taxis, entertainment. I try to do the same in Shanghai, but end up having to put more effort into using coupons and/or happy hours in order to make budget. But, $50 in BJ is usually permits a relatively care free style, and can even fund some relatively nice dinners (e.g. Yotosuba) if you can conserve in other ways.

I've never had great luck with shirts in BJ. Places like Lisa's make decent looking shirts for y100 a pop, but these don't last very long. Meanwhile, the higher end places in the CBD produce better products, but the quality/price ratio is inferior to many of the shops in Kowloon with which you are probably familiar. Copying a Burberry design is pretty easy for most tailors, good or bad. You just have to pick the fabric that is closest to you desired preferences.

There is at least one thread in this forum that discusses this issue in detail, though we don't seem to have any consensus favorites any more.



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jiejie

I concur with above, and will add that Beijing can be adapted to fit any budget. If you want western-style meals with wine, it will cost you, but for Chinese and relatively standard bar/club entertainment, maybe even Chinese shows and things, it can be quite cheap. Local transportation--mass transit and public--is cheap by just about any standards. Beijing is more expensive than Bangkok, however. Or to look at it another way, for the same amount of cash, you will get less value for it.

Tailoring: Beijing is not known for this, never has been and likely never will be. If you want competent tailoring with a quality level that will last a while, you'll need to go to a place like Dave's at Kerry Center, and pay the price. If you just want a copy made however, of something that fits you well, go ahead and give it a whirl at one of the mass market/factory tailors like Lisa's at 3.3 Sanlitun, Alice at Yaxiu, or 2nd floor of the Friendship Store, Sanlitun Branch.

mackenzie77

Tell us what type of lifestyle or type of travel comfort you prefer and we can give you a better sense of how much you might spend. To give you an example of how ridiculous the range of spending might be, had a couple of old college buddies come in to visit a few weeks ago, we're all mid-career now but aren't above hanging out/eating wherever.

1st Night:
Super-Local hotpot/northern China restaurant, ordered about seven dishes, plus about ten beers
Total: 120Y

2nd Night:
Similar amount of food and drink at a more 'upscale' place
Total: 800Y

Crazy extremes, everything is like that in living in the middle kingdom.

chumbleflea

Honestly, to me prices in Beijing are very similar to HK recently. As with both cities, you can get away with going on the cheap (ie eating local street food, and staying at hostels). I guess definitions of a "nice dinner" are going to vary but without going to extremes I would average $60 USD for a pretty nice dinner (think surroundings similar to a McCormick and Smick or Capital Grill).

jiejie

I would put $60 USD dinners (for 1 person) at my upper end for Beijing dining, and it better be western, with wine, and darn special atmosphere for that price. Then again, I live in the style of a normal middle-class person, not a visiting executive on business expense account. I particularly tend to resist paying large sums for Chinese food, as after a certain level, all you're paying for is marketing and atmosphere, occasionally service but not food quality. I still think that HK is more expensive than BJ whether talking about street food level, local mass restaurant level, middle-class level, or high-end. I will agree that the price differences between HK and BJ at the high end level will these days be pretty small.

I don't think Beijing is one of those places where you automatically get better quality as you scale up prices. As in, paying $60 for dinner doesn't get you a meal 3x better than a $20 dinner. Sometimes it doesn't even get you equal quality! One of the bane of Beijinger's existence is the glut of "fine" restaurants that just don't deliver either in food or service. Lots of style and hype, no substance. Or they are great the first month then fall apart. This tends to be more of a problem with the non-Chinese cuisine restaurants. Fortunately, they also tend to go out of business relatively quickly.

On a traveller's non-food costs, BJ would be cheaper than HK on most other dimensions, except maybe for imported western personal care and medicine products where HK has better availability and doesn't levy punitive taxes on.

moondog

I shoot for $20 dinners myself, which frees up $20 for lunch plus other expenses (e.g. transportation and spas), and allows me to splurge on Friday and Saturday, plus Sunday brunch (I'm saving $10 per day from my $50/day budget).

HK and SH are both much more expensive.

jbalmuth

Is there a thread listing any of the recommended $20 restaurants? [My wife and I are travelling there in September for 5 days or so....] TIA!

moondog

I don't think any threads exist on that exact topic, but Xiaowangfu (near Kerry Center) is a no brainer. For $40 (maybe even $25), you'll be able to get a duck, lazijiding, deep fried spare ribs, some veggies, and beer. Even though Peter doesn't like it, those guys make my favorite duck in Beijing.

For other places, check out thebeijinger.com.

Jamoldo

Nope, but you can eat for darned well for the both of you at much lower prices (though the "atmosphere" might be lacking etc).

Memorize some dishes and get the concierge to write them out in Chinese for you... la zi ji ding (spicy chicken), gon bao ji ding (kung pao chicken), mo po tofu, xi hong shi chao ji dan (tomato and egg), di san xian (bell peppers, eggplant, potato) etc.

then ask the waitress to point to it on the menu as you order it and note the price (just as a precaution), or ask the concierge for tips.

Then try to get the heck out of the CBD and into pretty much any other part of town, walk into a restaurant and order away...

That being said, a duck experience cannot be missed. I would also reccommend sichuan, hotpot and xinjiang (the latter is loved by many but not known to most outside of China).

If you need more ideas (for dishes/specification), do please feel free to ask here or PM me.

Villavic

I was in may this year. I consider Beijing cheaper than big US and european cities. In terms of restaurants and hotels. I was not interested in clothes, so I can't compare. But in general I find China not expensive. And think I live in Peru, where life cost of living is not as expensive as in first world countries.

iahphx

Oh, no! This is reminding me that on my trip next month I only have One Night in Beijing (sounds like a song). So I face the DUCK CONUNDRUM -- where to go, when there are countless places.

I didn't know Peter didn't like Xiao Wang's. I guess it figures. I like it, and I think they have very good duck. And, as you allude to, I also think that they have some other very good dishes on their menu. Man (or woman) should not live on duck alone, so this is what I'd call a "balanced choice."

Do they still have the Ritan Park location? I think I'm staying near there, and I've always found that restaurant's setting to be very pleasant. A nice "special event" restaurant without having to pay much of a special event price.

Peter_N-H

$20 is a lot of money, and brings you an innumerable number of choices in Beijing. It would be hard to know where to begin, and indeed the number of restaurants where you simply wouldn't be able to eat everything you were given for that amount of money equally innumerable.

A combination of guide books and the websites of local listings magazines (e.g. The Beijinger, City Weekend) will suggest a large number of places at the $20 end, and some below that. But wandering at random into anywhere away from expat ghettos isn't much of a risk, except that if you're wanting Sichuan dishes you'll want a Sichuan restaurant. They'll serve them to you in a Cantonese restaurant but not in forms any Sichuanese would recognise. There's no such thing as 'Chinese' food in the form of the menus (or indeed the glop) mostly served in the West (well, except nearly as bad in a few tourist-targeting places), but a number of regional cooking schools. If you want Beijing dishes you go to a specialist, Shanxi dishes to a Shanxi restaurant, hotpot to a hotpot restaurant and so on. Jiachang cai (home cooking) restaurants have a basic menu of approachable dishes, however, and are typically very cheap.

But for Beijing all the help you need with what are the key dishes from each cooking school, complete with the characters for their names, photographs of them, and reviews of restaurants from each school with recommended dishes, at a variety of price ranges, can be found in 'Beijing Eats' by Eileen Wen Mooney, and which can be found on sale in a number of bookshops and other locations around Beijing.

See Beijing Eats, and more broadly on food in Beijing in general, the author's blog Eileen Eats

Peter N-H
China

moondog

I'm thoroughly impressed by the fact that you've given these guys props. I love The Beijinger myself, especially Kaiser Kuo's columns... superior journalism by all counts.

Quoting the man who used to live in Phoenix or Houston here, I've heard that the Ritan Park location is a bit fancier/pricier, but have never been myself. If you don't want to risk paying more (can't be that much, I assume), the Guanghua Rd location probably isn't too far away (i.e. think "walking distance").

iahphx

I honestly can't remember if that location was more expensive, but it's certainly a bit fancier. By Western standards, the prices were still modest. If there's a small premium, I think it's worth it, especially if you're going out for a "special" evening.