TSA and 'Druggies'
#16
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
TSA has no "jurisdiction." TSOs are not law enforcement officers and have none of the powers of law enforcement officers. They may not detain. They may not arrest. They may not confiscate, except for specific contraband. All they may do is deny you access to the sterile area and call for a law enforcement officer.
#17
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: HSV
Posts: 876
Originally Posted by ND Sol
Have any TSO's been disciplined for failing to refer "drugs" or cash to a supervisor for further investigation?
#18




Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,957
It wouldn't surprise me if there have been no discipline instances. The TSA walks a fine line with items outside of the specific items being searched for and to discipline a TSO for failing to report such an item could have legal repercussions.
#19
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So you believe it's OK for the articulation of "suspicion" by an untrained TSO/burger flipper to serve as the basis for justifying a search by law enforcement, hence depriving all travellers of the presumption of innocence?
#20
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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#21
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ewr,swf,fll
Posts: 835
How are you to know what "blatantly illegal contraband" is? You guys are like a bunch of nine years old who have just gotten their plastic "agent" badges and decoder rings out of the cereal box and you think that qualifies you to somehow "know" contraband when you see it. This is the kind of pig-ignorance that led to the arrest of Janet Lee. Disturbing to see you haven't learned from such incidents.
So you believe it's OK for the articulation of "suspicion" by an untrained TSO/burger flipper to serve as the basis for justifying a search by law enforcement, hence depriving all travellers of the presumption of innocence?
So you believe it's OK for the articulation of "suspicion" by an untrained TSO/burger flipper to serve as the basis for justifying a search by law enforcement, hence depriving all travellers of the presumption of innocence?
#22
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Kelly at the TSA blog doesn't seem to understand "suspected" vs. "certainly"
There's nothing in there at all about pornography, nothing in there about pirated DVDs, or, for heaven's sake Phil, animals without all their vaccinations. None of the above are even anything I've remotely cared about, primarily because TSA doesn't care about it either.
For example, in the comments for the Incident at St. Louis International post, Kelly Mae, a TSO and member of the TSA blog team, wrote:
If while in a bag check for our primary focus items (i.e. liquids/weapons etc) and we find things such as drugs, it IS our "procedure" to inform supervisors and Law Enforcement.
No matter how big or small, illegal is illegal and we can't just overlook it, sorry. We can't just hand back your kilo b/c it's not a "threat"."
No matter how big or small, illegal is illegal and we can't just overlook it, sorry. We can't just hand back your kilo b/c it's not a "threat"."
I don't understand.
#23
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
How are you to know what "blatantly illegal contraband" is? You guys are like a bunch of nine years old who have just gotten their plastic "agent" badges and decoder rings out of the cereal box and you think that qualifies you to somehow "know" contraband when you see it. This is the kind of pig-ignorance that led to the arrest of Janet Lee. Disturbing to see you haven't learned from such incidents.
So you believe it's OK for the articulation of "suspicion" by an untrained TSO/burger flipper to serve as the basis for justifying a search by law enforcement, hence depriving all travellers of the presumption of innocence?
So you believe it's OK for the articulation of "suspicion" by an untrained TSO/burger flipper to serve as the basis for justifying a search by law enforcement, hence depriving all travellers of the presumption of innocence?
The cops get to do everything that they normally can only do with reasonable suspicion -- demand an ID to run a warrant check, perform what is now a warrantless criminal search of a passenger and their property, and arrest someone, such as Ms Lee, with absolutely no compliance with any sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause standards.
Ms Lee had to expend considerable funds herself, take time off from college, and even defend herself against a charge of something like "faking drugs". I don't recall the specific charge they tried to lay on her after it was clear that the condoms didn't contain illegal drugs, but, it had something to do with the fact that it's apparently a crime to make up something to look like illegal drugs.
Now, despite the civil settlement and the criminal charges being dropped, Ms Lee now has an arrest record based on an untrained screener thinking they had made the "big catch." I hope Ms Lee never needs a security clearance for a job, because the arrest, no matter how bogus, will makeit difficult, if not impossible, for her to get a clearance. And, the screener will NEVER be held accountable. This is just plain disgusting.
Last edited by FliesWay2Much; Apr 15, 2009 at 1:58 pm
#24
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
Kelly Mae at TSA also wrote:
I have repeatedly asked her whether she thinks this sort of behavior is constitutional, but she has not answered.
The issue with the cash is, "if found", it is a scenario for further scrutiny in which the LEOs may get involved, especially if you are traveling out of country with said cash. (that IS illegal) There will be some questioning involved, but it's only to ensure it's not illegal, and if all is kosher, you'll be on your way.
#25
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ewr,swf,fll
Posts: 835
This is my biggest gripe. There is absolutely no reasonable suspicion standard for a screener. The cops love it because THEY don't need articulable reasonable suspicion -- all they have to do is to respond to a screener's whim.
The cops get to do everything that they normally can only do with reasonable suspicion -- demand an ID to run a warrant check, perform what is now a warrantless criminal search of a passenger and their property, and arrest someone, such as Ms Lee, with absolutely no compliance with any sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause standards.
Ms Lee had to expend considerable funds herself, take time off from college, and even defend herself against a charge of something like "faking drugs". I don't recall the specific charge they tried to lay on her after it was clear that the condoms didn't contain illegal drugs, but, it had something to do with the fact that it's apparently a crime to make up something to look like illegal drygs.
Now, despite the civil settlement and the criminal charges being dropped, Ms Lee now has an arrest record based on an untrained screener thinking they had made the "big catch." I hope Ms Lee never needs a security clearance for a job, because the arrest, no matter how bogus, will makeit difficult, if not impossible, for her to get a clearance. And, the screener will NEVER be held accountable. This is just plain disgusting.
The cops get to do everything that they normally can only do with reasonable suspicion -- demand an ID to run a warrant check, perform what is now a warrantless criminal search of a passenger and their property, and arrest someone, such as Ms Lee, with absolutely no compliance with any sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause standards.
Ms Lee had to expend considerable funds herself, take time off from college, and even defend herself against a charge of something like "faking drugs". I don't recall the specific charge they tried to lay on her after it was clear that the condoms didn't contain illegal drugs, but, it had something to do with the fact that it's apparently a crime to make up something to look like illegal drygs.
Now, despite the civil settlement and the criminal charges being dropped, Ms Lee now has an arrest record based on an untrained screener thinking they had made the "big catch." I hope Ms Lee never needs a security clearance for a job, because the arrest, no matter how bogus, will makeit difficult, if not impossible, for her to get a clearance. And, the screener will NEVER be held accountable. This is just plain disgusting.
#26
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Programs: Air Canada Aeroplan, Lufthansa Miles & More, Flying Blue, Hyatt Gold Passport
Posts: 1,894
This is my biggest gripe. There is absolutely no reasonable suspicion standard for a screener. The cops love it because THEY don't need articulable reasonable suspicion -- all they have to do is to respond to a screener's whim.
The cops get to do everything that they normally can only do with reasonable suspicion -- demand an ID to run a warrant check, perform what is now a warrantless criminal search of a passenger and their property, and arrest someone, such as Ms Lee, with absolutely no compliance with any sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause standards.
Ms Lee had to expend considerable funds herself, take time off from college, and even defend herself against a charge of something like "faking drugs". I don't recall the specific charge they tried to lay on her after it was clear that the condoms didn't contain illegal drugs, but, it had something to do with the fact that it's apparently a crime to make up something to look like illegal drygs.
Now, despite the civil settlement and the criminal charges being dropped, Ms Lee now has an arrest record based on an untrained screener thinking they had made the "big catch." I hope Ms Lee never needs a security clearance for a job, because the arrest, no matter how bogus, will makeit difficult, if not impossible, for her to get a clearance. And, the screener will NEVER be held accountable. This is just plain disgusting.
The cops get to do everything that they normally can only do with reasonable suspicion -- demand an ID to run a warrant check, perform what is now a warrantless criminal search of a passenger and their property, and arrest someone, such as Ms Lee, with absolutely no compliance with any sort of reasonable suspicion or probable cause standards.
Ms Lee had to expend considerable funds herself, take time off from college, and even defend herself against a charge of something like "faking drugs". I don't recall the specific charge they tried to lay on her after it was clear that the condoms didn't contain illegal drugs, but, it had something to do with the fact that it's apparently a crime to make up something to look like illegal drygs.
Now, despite the civil settlement and the criminal charges being dropped, Ms Lee now has an arrest record based on an untrained screener thinking they had made the "big catch." I hope Ms Lee never needs a security clearance for a job, because the arrest, no matter how bogus, will makeit difficult, if not impossible, for her to get a clearance. And, the screener will NEVER be held accountable. This is just plain disgusting.
#27
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she has an arrest record because she was stupid enough to do what she did. she is responsible for her actions. is it ok for me to try and sneak fake tnt on a plane? what if i had a couple of pounds of parsley in a bag? they should just laugh it off? i am no fan of the tsa but we do have to take some responsibility for ourselves....
#28
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ewr,swf,fll
Posts: 835
no i just take responibility for myself. i know how tsa is. i know there is nothing i can do about it so i cause the least amount of hassle as possible when going through. packing a bunch of condoms full of flower is begging for trouble and that is exactly what she got....
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
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Posts: 12,523
she has an arrest record because she was stupid enough to do what she did. she is responsible for her actions. is it ok for me to try and sneak fake tnt on a plane? what if i had a couple of pounds of parsley in a bag? they should just laugh it off? i am no fan of the tsa but we do have to take some responsibility for ourselves....
#30
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ewr,swf,fll
Posts: 835
i'm going to guess you didnt pack it to look like you were smuggling drugs. if miss innocent would have been just carrying a sack of flour she would not have been hassled. would she? she tried to make it look like dope. and the dope got hassled. dont get me wrong in different times it may have been viewed as a harmless prank but we dont live in those times anymore..

