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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Hostile TSA work environment at DEN (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/939447-hostile-tsa-work-environment-den.html)

eyecue Apr 3, 2009 10:27 pm

To be fair
 
When the powers that be created TSA they did not give the agency or the people in it ANY rights. We are not protected by any government policies that are in place for other agencies. It appears that Title 9 and many other safeguards are not applicable to TSA. The problems that are mentioned are perceptions, I have been there over 6 years and I have had some rough moments too. Things are better than they were in the start. I just wonder why after 7 years things are not perfect.

spotnik Apr 4, 2009 1:05 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 11522968)
Not only have you reached this conclusion so did OIG.

FSD's receive their directions from HQ and it should be pretty much the same directions for each activity. Some will implement policy better than others but the underlying intent will still remain.

The Denver report probably mirrors most airports to some degree.

I suggest that the problem is much greater than the report indicates.

Just saying...

To be fair, the referenced OIG report was from 2006. Since 2006, there have been a number of policy changes and new programs implemented to address this issue. It seems, to me, that things have improved. There is far more progress to be made, though.

Like any large organization, TSA has some locations that are far better than average, and some that are far worse. There is a big emphasis on local control, and local high level management has a fair amount of control over how things are run. This is largely necessary to address the different configurations and security concerns unique to each airport. The problem is how you balance local control with HQ to maintain the necessary flexibility and provide for oversight, fair treatment, and reasonably consistent procedures.


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 11523480)
I'm confused. If there are too many employees for the work to be done fire some of them. That is what layoffs are for. Continued employment is not a right.

Or actually use the employees to screen for real dangers, but I doubt that will actually happen.

You need a reason to get rid of federal employees. The question is, what reason is used. The federal government does have a procedure for a reduction in force (RIF). It is a pretty significant action, and requires a lot of work. This, combined with my previous statement, is about as far as I'm willing to go in commenting on this issue (out of abundant caution.)

txrus Apr 4, 2009 9:17 am


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 11525981)
When the powers that be created TSA they did not give the agency or the people in it ANY rights. We are not protected by any government policies that are in place for other agencies. It appears that Title 9 and many other safeguards are not applicable to TSA. The problems that are mentioned are perceptions, I have been there over 6 years and I have had some rough moments too. Things are better than they were in the start. I just wonder why after 7 years things are not perfect.

Because the TSA is the result of a knee-jerk panic reaction & nothing good ever comes from that.

VideoPaul Apr 4, 2009 5:02 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 11522342)
I didn't read anything in the article that really surprised me.

When you have a poorly managed, poorly trained and an unprofessional work force attempting to do a difficult job you should expect some pushback.

The first step is to stop the "Dragnet Checkpoint" mentallity and get back to the core job, keeping dangerous things off of airplanes.

It is clear that TSA has failed in this regard.

A top down house cleaning is needed at TSA.

The problem is hopelessly compounded by the fact tha tthe TSA can sidestep any FOIA request in the name of "national security". **IF** these lawsuits get to trial instead of mysteriously disappearing, the agency will claim SSI on everything and I doubt the judge will be able to do a damned thing about it. They are above the law, they are accountable to no one, and they waste 6 billion dollars a year doing it, and nothing had been done about it by mister "change and accountability" who is currently touring Europe campaigning for a job he already won.

CHANGE!! CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!!

--PP

HSVTSO Dean Apr 4, 2009 6:28 pm


Originally Posted by VideoPaul
**IF** these lawsuits get to trial instead of mysteriously disappearing, the agency will claim SSI on everything and I doubt the judge will be able to do a damned thing about it.

Usually when that comes up, the Judge(s) view it in camera. The most recent one I can think of where this happened was Gilmore v. Gonzalez, but it's been done almost every time someone files a suit against the TSA, and, prior to them, the FAA. The judge(s) view the SSI documentation relevant to the case, then come out and state their decision.

That's how it's been done previously, anyway, when the FAA/TSA states that the information required by the court is SSI.

Boggie Dog Apr 4, 2009 7:24 pm


Originally Posted by spotnik (Post 11526339)
To be fair, the referenced OIG report was from 2006.

From the article linked in the OP's remarks:

"A Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General (DHS OIG) report in May 2008 shows the problems may be nationwide.

"TSA employees... have criticized the agency for discrimination, selective hiring practices, nepotism, management misconduct and other questionable activities," according to the DHS OIG.

As a result, the OIG report found low morale "could adversely affect the effectiveness of TSA's security screening function." "

FliesWay2Much Apr 5, 2009 4:40 am


Originally Posted by HSVTSO Dean (Post 11529010)
Usually when that comes up, the Judge(s) view it in camera. The most recent one I can think of where this happened was Gilmore v. Gonzalez, but it's been done almost every time someone files a suit against the TSA, and, prior to them, the FAA. The judge(s) view the SSI documentation relevant to the case, then come out and state their decision.

That's how it's been done previously, anyway, when the FAA/TSA states that the information required by the court is SSI.

You're right. I've even seen this done with real classified information. A Federal judge, like members of Congress, can have access to any level of classified information necessary to do their jobs. I recall one instance where we cleared both sides' attorneys (civil whistle-blower suit).

flpab Apr 5, 2009 9:12 pm


Originally Posted by spotnik (Post 11522784)
Passenger loads are down a lot. As a result, many airports are over their FTE, and management is under pressure to reduce the workforce. Hypothetically, this might create an opportunity for management to attempt to clear out trouble makers, or anyone they deem to be disliked, disfavored, or dangerous to the current regime. It may also make for fewer promotion opportunities, which could result in a greater chance of a disfavored employee being passed over when the limited opportunities come around.

On that note, I learned a new acronym the other day: NCIH. It stands for No Chance in H***, and is apparently an unofficial marking added to some employees' personnel files, to be reviewed should the employee ever be eligible for promotion.

As to the Op; I'm not from Denver. Based on my experience and correspondence with other uniformed TSA employees, this problem is not exactly unique to Denver.

We call it the "Good Old Boys Club" I just hope that with the new administration things will change. The upper ranks were filled with FAA guys and the women in this organization have been looked over for many jobs and promotions. The abuse towards women has been going on for along time and the word is always they were dealt with but under the privacy act we can never tell you how they were dealt with soooo we know zip happens. I think it is all smoke and mirrors on many levels and we seen things that needed changing for 6 and 1/2 years. It is like someone teaching you how to drive that doesn't drive. Total nonsense and many upper management that try and justify their big salary job. I work at an airport and we see the waste and the tsa screeners are the first to agree. It is typical Federal crap.

castrobenes Apr 5, 2009 10:47 pm

I am a TSA manager. I have read this forum for some time, and often considered contributing. I don't know if this thread is the best vehicle for my first post. However I am going to jump in with both feet.

My initial reading is that the original article should be read from the perspective that there is a vast union organizing campaign happening right now. President Obama made several promises to the AFGE in the campaign, and TSA collective bargaining was a part of that. That doesn't mean that the allegations are untrue, they should just be read with the understanding that right now the labor organizers are trying to highlight TSA abuses of their employees to justify unionization.

My other reading is that if you interviewed former employees or disgruntled employees at my airport, you would probably hear many of the same allegations. In this forum, you can read many examples of TSA employees acting unprofessionally. It is my job to try to improve performance. I truly don't believe that I treat people badly. However many of my poor performing officers have complained about me in the same terms described in the article.

TSA has some good employees. It also has some awful ones. If the agency is going to help the worst employees move on to different career choices and help some of the others improve their daily performance, then you can expect more articles just like this one.

I am not defending anything that happened in Denver because I wasn't there. And I don't know the specifics. But I do know that if you interview disgruntled employees from any organization then you will get a certain type of news story.

Spiff Apr 5, 2009 11:33 pm

Welcome to FlyerTalk, castrobenes!

coachrowsey Apr 6, 2009 8:46 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11534104)
Welcome to FlyerTalk, castrobenes!

+1. I hope you can take the heat here & will stay & contribute.

goalie Apr 6, 2009 1:30 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11534104)
Welcome to FlyerTalk, castrobenes!

ditto on the welcome ^ and i for one (and sure others do as well) look forward to you sharing your insight(s) and please, do not take what you read here personally :) as where i'm sure you know, the tsa on f/t is a very, shall we say "spirited" ;) discussion topic.

again welcome and thanks in advance for sharing :)

castrobenes Apr 7, 2009 12:50 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 11534104)
Welcome to FlyerTalk, castrobenes!

Thanks Spiff, Goalie, etc,

Castro Benes

spotnik Apr 8, 2009 12:27 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 11529139)
From the article linked in the OP's remarks:

"A Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General (DHS OIG) report in May 2008 shows the problems may be nationwide.

"TSA employees... have criticized the agency for discrimination, selective hiring practices, nepotism, management misconduct and other questionable activities," according to the DHS OIG.

As a result, the OIG report found low morale "could adversely affect the effectiveness of TSA's security screening function." "

I'm sorry. My mistake. It does not, however, change my point that TSA really is trying to do things to recognize problems and improve the work environment.


Originally Posted by castrobenes (Post 11534007)
I am a TSA manager. I have read this forum for some time, and often considered contributing. I don't know if this thread is the best vehicle for my first post. However I am going to jump in with both feet.

My initial reading is that the original article should be read from the perspective that there is a vast union organizing campaign happening right now. President Obama made several promises to the AFGE in the campaign, and TSA collective bargaining was a part of that. That doesn't mean that the allegations are untrue, they should just be read with the understanding that right now the labor organizers are trying to highlight TSA abuses of their employees to justify unionization.

My other reading is that if you interviewed former employees or disgruntled employees at my airport, you would probably hear many of the same allegations. In this forum, you can read many examples of TSA employees acting unprofessionally. It is my job to try to improve performance. I truly don't believe that I treat people badly. However many of my poor performing officers have complained about me in the same terms described in the article.

TSA has some good employees. It also has some awful ones. If the agency is going to help the worst employees move on to different career choices and help some of the others improve their daily performance, then you can expect more articles just like this one.

I am not defending anything that happened in Denver because I wasn't there. And I don't know the specifics. But I do know that if you interview disgruntled employees from any organization then you will get a certain type of news story.

Welcome! :)

You make some excellent points, especially the bit about this article being published in the context of major union activities.

It is also fair to mention that TSA has some very good, caring, professional management. Unfortunately, there are some bad apples who ruin the reputation for the rest of you.

Don't let the members here get you down, they're mostly a nice bunch of folks, once you get to know them. :D

LegalTender Apr 12, 2009 8:41 pm

The TSA shut down screening for 55 minutes at Denver today, marooning several hundred passengers. No announcement, no explanation. Had it not been Easter Sunday, the impact would have been infinitely worse.

A city police officer later told us it was a drill, not an actual breach.

DIA is my least-favorite major airport.


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