TamCaP

Without any prejudice:
axiom: when you enter the plane, you have to follow the crew orders
flashback #1: guy stands in the corner, playing, not reacting to repetitive orders of the crew
solution: the guy gets kicked out

If I was standing in the back on the plane talking on the phone, and telling the crew that I only need 2-3 minutes extra, and they kicked me out for that - there would not be any discussion whatsoever.
Bottom point is: if a cabin crew member orders you to do something (sit down) - you sit down.

But this is of course only my very humble POV...

shadesofgrey1x

Sorry, I should have realized that if you don't obey flight crew instructions, they simply go "oh well" and go about their business.

So tell me have you been on so many flights that this is common place and hence no one raises an eyebrow?

He was doing something that is out of the ordinary and expects no reaction. Give me a break. If it was an IAH originating flight they have the voice of GOD blaring through the airport asking you to report unusual behavior to the authorities at once. Praying in the aisles of a loading AC is sure to get you noticed on any plane in this day and age.

The innocent I'm just going about my business for this sort of nonsense just does not cut it.

LessO2

You have made your case crystal clear on him having disrupted the flight crew. I am even willing to overlook the fact that it was described as being in the very rear of the aircraft and it was done during boarding. Those two things, to me, do not add up. Either there's some lax reporting or bad judgment on the crew's part.


Now, that said, you still haven't given a shred of evidence, from the article or from anywhere else, to back up your intent claim.

I'll ask again -- show me the intent on this person's part.

GoingAway

You guys psychic? Were you there? Standing in the aisles ... holding up departure ... where did you get any of that from this article?

Your humble POV is very flawed ... how many times have you seen ONE person be told to end their discussion and put their phone away? i know of at least one time where it took 4 times and the plane moving on the tarmac before the guy finally hung up. The FAs were po'd, sure but no one was getting kicked off the flight. There is a diff here with the guy standing - but the article is "during boarding" and we don't know at what point of boarding this all took place.
Then there are all those folks who are oh-so-important and play with their blackberry throughout the entire flight, including taxi when electronics are supposed to be off, etc. Plenty that I'd like to see kicked off but no one ever is, its amazing if they are even sanctioned/noticed/caught.

For whatever reason a lesson was made of this guy - within the rights of the FA? likely given the current paranoid environment. Correct move? An entire other story but very dependent on the facts that are not available.

Ari

It says they removed him after he finished praying-- it seems like removing him would have delayed the flight longer than just letting him take his seat at that point.

J-M

I'm not familiar with this airline's specific policies, but generally if you refuse to follow crew instructions at the gate and it gets escalated to the Captain, then you're gone. It's not worth the risk of transporting a passenger who has already shown a willingness to be a problem at the gate. That problem can be solved quite easily on the ground... not so much at 33,000 feet.

UnitedF1RST

My guess would be that the FA thought that he was a threat to security. We weren't there perhaps theres something were missing. Lets consider this from a few sides.

1. FA: Passenger is not obeying the cabin crew which, under law, passengers must obey.

2. Passenger: "All I need is a few minutes to pray to God."

3. United: We need to get this plane off the ground so we can report an on-time departure.

I highly doubt the situation would've been any different had the passenger been the Pope himself praying in the corner or a buddhist meditating. The crew is the authority on board and it was their decision to remove the passenger. They could've asked the cops to arrest him. Instead, they put him on a later flight. I'm not condoning the FA's actions or UA's actions, but they could've been a lot harsher with this passenger.

Plain and simple, God is important to the religious. But when you're on board, weather its God or call of nature, you need to be in your seat when that door gets shut. Or else they will kick you off.

fly-yul

Sounds like an over-reaction by the FA. If they were still boarding what's the big deal?

A similar situation happened on Air Canada. In that case the poor guy was just sitting in his seat and was still removed from the flight. Talk about ignorance.
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthrea...hlight=praying

Ari

Which is exactly why I think the FA elevated the situation-- out of an abundance out of caution.

Dovster

No, it probably was not intended to provoke a reaction. You will, indeed, see several people praying in this manner on any El Al flight at sun up and sun down.

That being said, I have yet to see it while the plane is still on the ground. It would cause a boarding problem, or delay take off, at that time. Later in the flight it causes no trouble.

LessO2

I'm personally not a big fan of religion, simply a personal choice.

However, I am a big fan of religious freedom...something this country was built upon.

I think a few facts need to be emphasized:

1. The article states that the incident happened "during boarding." I've yet to fly an airline which boards passengers with the door(s) closed.
2. If the FA(s) flexed their muscle while the door was open, why were they concerned about the situation?
3. United.com says the plane left four minutes late, due to "Air Traffic Control." Now, I know you can cite that for slot time, but 9:19 p.m. does not come over to me as a problem with slot time.
4. The plane clearly did not push back yet. I've also yet to board a plane that has boarded people after pushback. Again, the plane was four minutes late. It takes MUCH longer than that to get ground staff alerted, re-open doors, etc IF the doors closed.
5. PA and TSA says they weren't involved, only "security" people. If the cops or TSA weren't involved, that tells me something else, something fishy and not up to snuff (on the part of UA) was going on.

Like I said earlier, either some lax reporting or someone at UA is telling a little white one.

dhammer53

Can't believe a JFK based crew would do this. Must have been a non NY crew; because New Yorkers seem to understand each other religionwise (just my opinion and 2 cents).

Then again, when an Orthodox person makes up his mind about something...

alanR

So the guy has queued several times at the airport, been sitting around in some departure area THEN when he gets on the plane he decides it's time to pray

ilgoldstein

One of the precepts of Jewish religious law is that "the law of the land is the law." There is also the concept that if you are on the way to do a mitzvah (a righteous act aka a good deed) and are prevent from doing so, it is as if you had completed the task. While observant Jews pray at certain times of the day, it seems this gentleman put his own piety first.

Dovster

No, he does not decide when it's time to pray. The sun does that by going up or going down. Indeed, on transatlantic flights there can be more than one sunrise or sunset in a particular day, requiring that the prayers be repeated.