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Do you ever try to PSYOP TSA?

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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:35 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by dd992emo
I'm not a huge fan of newspapers, but this article seems pretty well researched. This author claims it's 4 days of training with some OJT thrown in..

http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=2985
Everyone gets stuck on "micro-expressions". They are more readily identifiable behavioral cues (you could call them "macro-expressions").

I don't consider myself an amateur psychologist. However, I have a degree in Psychology and I have spent thousands of hours in an airport. By now, even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:36 pm
  #62  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
I'm not from Tampa, I'm from MSP (Minneapolis, MN). At MSP, the Metropolitan Airports Commission (MAC) owns the airport. The MAC employs their very own Airport Police Department (APD). The APD has the authority to remove someone from the airport if they feel that they are loitering or have no official business being on their property. The airlines don't have the ultimate say.
Sorry, I saw the letters tpa and for some reason assumed you were in Tampa. Ah yes - the (in)famous MSP police department. We have plenty of anecdotes about their behavior in and out of the bathroom, including some often violent behavior on the part of a couple of their members. In the case of MSP, I can assume the AD's office has given the airport police wide latitude to act on their behalf - and that might include removing people from the terminal.

I never said the airlines have the final say over who is in the airport - they do have the final say about who flies on their aircraft. If someone is removed from the terminal, there is little they can do about it.

I have taken approximately 40-50 hours of initial classroom training, 24 hours of OJT with an experienced trainer (prior to being certified), and spent the first several weeks with an experienced BDO. Since then I have received ongoing classroom training from TSA and other federal and local agency on document recognition and behavior pattern recognition. Along with that, continuous online training and learning from my peers success or mistakes.

I have been doing the job for about a year and feel that I have a well-developed skill. I spend 40 hours a week observing thousands of people, I now have a database of normal behavior and abnormal behavior. I have recognized patterns and can tell you a great deal about someone prior to engaging them in conversation. I learn something new everyday and continue to develop my skills.
This is all good, but it's only a starting point. Your bosses spin this training and experience level as if SPOT checkers are experts in this practice and on par with their peers at say, El Al. I'm sure we can agree this is not the case.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:51 pm
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by tmspa
... I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right.
I used this same line to get out of jury duty. If that didn't work, I was going to throw out that I could tell if they were guilty just by looking at them!

Last edited by Rockett0; Feb 25, 2008 at 4:03 pm Reason: The TSA "spot"ted a grammer error.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:51 pm
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
This is all good, but it's only a starting point. Your bosses spin this training and experience level as if SPOT checkers are experts in this practice and on par with their peers at say, El Al. I'm sure we can agree this is not the case.
I never expected to get this far from the OP, is a new thread called for? If so, what should it be titled?

Anyway, yes I agree that it is not equivalent to El Al. However, I also think Israelis give up way more civil liberties than we do, as Americans. Basically, it can considered a scaled-down version of their model. We don't employ racial or ethnic profiling.

Since it is relatively new in the U.S., it is tough to consider anyone a true expert. I do know people, however, that are very good at it. With time I think you will find that it will be true asset to aviation security. Machines and technology are great, but they can't replace human intuition and experience.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:54 pm
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by Rockett0
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmspa
, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right.

I used this same line to get out of jury duty. If that didn't work, I was going to throw out that I could tell if they were guilty just by looking at them!
Next time you quote me, would you please include the statement before the comma and not take my statement out of context?

Last edited by tmspa; Feb 25, 2008 at 3:54 pm Reason: punctuation
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:56 pm
  #66  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
Everyone gets stuck on "micro-expressions". They are more readily identifiable behavioral cues (you could call them "macro-expressions").

I don't consider myself an amateur psychologist. However, I have a degree in Psychology and I have spent thousands of hours in an airport. By now, even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right.
Sorry, but anyone who is the least bit aware of his/her surroundings can tell you if something or some one is a bit "off", but does that require SPOTting? I don't think so.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 3:56 pm
  #67  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
The easy thing for both parties involved would be for you to explain to me the reason you don't want to talk.
Did no one else catch this Worthy of the Kipster sound bite?
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by tmspa
Next time you quote me, would you please include the statement before the comma and not take my statement out of context?
No.

The entire statement is not what I said. But I did edit the post for you.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:08 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
I have been doing the job for about a year and feel that I have a well-developed skill. I spend 40 hours a week observing thousands of people, I now have a database of normal behavior and abnormal behavior. I have recognized patterns and can tell you a great deal about someone prior to engaging them in conversation. I learn something new everyday and continue to develop my skills.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Are you saying you (or someone who trained you) are the final arbiter of what is normal and what is abby-normal?

And there are many people on this board who will say they can tell us a great deal about someone (especially someone in a TSA uniform) prior to engaging them in conversation.

Confidence and pomposity are not synonyms.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:18 pm
  #70  
 
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Originally Posted by red456
Sorry, but anyone who is the least bit aware of his/her surroundings can tell you if something or some one is a bit "off", but does that require SPOTting? I don't think so.

I didn't say that it did require "SPOTting". In fact, I stated that "even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right."
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:24 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by dd992emo
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying. Are you saying you (or someone who trained you) are the final arbiter of what is normal and what is abby-normal?

And there are many people on this board who will say they can tell us a great deal about someone (especially someone in a TSA uniform) prior to engaging them in conversation.

Confidence and pomposity are not synonyms.
I am "confident" of my abilities. I have studied abnormal behavior in college, have worked in a prison (where abnormal behavior is prevalent), have been trained to readily recognize it by the TSA, and have seen more than my fair share working at the airport. I consider myself well-qualified to determine what is abnormal. However, I don't individual have the final say. As I have said, I consult with my BDO partner/s to gain their perspective on each situation.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:26 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
I didn't say that it did require "SPOTting". In fact, I stated that "even without my BDO training and experience, I can tell you when something or someone is not quite right."
People always like to think that they can.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:41 pm
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by tmspa
I never expected to get this far from the OP, is a new thread called for? If so, what should it be titled?

Anyway, yes I agree that it is not equivalent to El Al. However, I also think Israelis give up way more civil liberties than we do, as Americans. Basically, it can considered a scaled-down version of their model. We don't employ racial or ethnic profiling.

Since it is relatively new in the U.S., it is tough to consider anyone a true expert. I do know people, however, that are very good at it. With time I think you will find that it will be true asset to aviation security. Machines and technology are great, but they can't replace human intuition and experience.
I think everyone in the country needs to take this training. We'd have a fun time psyching each other out. The only reason this stuff might work is because everyone doesn't know how to do it.
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:43 pm
  #74  
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Originally Posted by tmspa
I am "confident" of my abilities. I have studied abnormal behavior in college, have worked in a prison (where abnormal behavior is prevalent), have been trained to readily recognize it by the TSA, and have seen more than my fair share working at the airport. I consider myself well-qualified to determine what is abnormal. However, I don't individual have the final say. As I have said, I consult with my BDO partner/s to gain their perspective on each situation.
So what happens here?

As it turns out, right now I am under a significant amount of job-related stress. Believe me -- I'm stressed! However, even when I'm not stressed, I'm sufficiently misanthropic that I don't like to be crowded in with a bunch of strangers, whether in the club room, on the concourse, or on board. I am not, in the least, inclined to make light conversation with a stranger who walks up to me. Quite the contrary, I will try to shut down the interaction as quickly, albeit politely, as possible.

Will you have the courtesy to identify yourself as a TSA BDO, so I can tell you, politely but firmly, to leave me alone (I almost wrote something else)? Will you require that I speak with you? Under what authority?

Are you going to delay me? Call over a LEO? Call the airline's GSC?



So . . . what?
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Old Feb 25, 2008 | 4:54 pm
  #75  
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The easy thing for both parties involved would be for you to explain to me the reason you don't want to talk.
"Hi, you look nervous...and semi-agitated..."
"Get lost.."
"Seriously, why are you so nervous..."
"I said get lost ... go climb a tree...pound sand...get life"

Since every conversation with a SPOT will be similar to the above...why waste your time?
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