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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Web site generates fake boarding passes (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/617571-web-site-generates-fake-boarding-passes.html)

Wally Bird Oct 28, 2006 11:13 am


"While you may be able to get access to the terminal's interior through the security checkpoint," said Ann Davis, a TSA spokeswoman, "TSA assures that every individual introduced to the sterile environment beyond the checkpoint and their accessible property have been thoroughly checked and screened."
Umm, been to EWR recently, Ann ?

Wally Bird Oct 28, 2006 11:16 am


Originally Posted by studentff
What a dreadful waste of FBI resources. :rolleyes:

Although 95% (say) of the population will no doubt approve. Can't be too careful. Abundance of caution. Yadda, yadda.

WillTravel Oct 28, 2006 11:25 am

I see he is soliciting legal funds for his defense. Is he expecting to be charged?

Cholula Oct 28, 2006 11:26 am

Fyi
 
There were two threads running on this topic and I’ve now merged them.

studentff Oct 28, 2006 6:44 pm

FBI ransacked his home in wee-hours raid
 
Update: It's worth checking out the guy's blog again. The FBI obtained a warrant at 2 a.m. and conducted a wee-hours breakin to confiscate all of his computer equipment.

http://slightparanoia.blogspot.com/

Scans of the search warrant are posted there too.

Slashdot is also covering the story: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/28/2358202

I still don't see how generating fake boarding passes can be construed as ""conspiracy to knowingly present a false and fictitious claim upon or against the United States, or any department or agency thereof in violation of USC 18 (secs. 2, 371, 1036, 1343, 2318) and USC 49 (secs. 46314 and 46316) and 49 CFR (secs. 1540.103 and 1540.105)." :confused: Perhaps conspiracy to present a false claim against an airline, but not the United States? Since when is a boarding pass a federal document?

It seems to me that the feds are pissed off at being humiliated over the stupidity of their ID/BP policies and are taking it out on the kid/student by confiscating his computers. Even if they never file charges, it's unlikely that he will ever get his equipment back. I feel sorry for the guy.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 7:02 pm

A late night, pre-dawn violent-ish bust-down. Talk about another government knee-jerk overreaction.

So the FBI's first visit was a show, a prequel to buying time and opportunity to get a warrant to harass in far more serious ways.

They seem set up to push hard for prosecution on any and all grounds, creative or not. Why not prosecute Sen. Schumer? ;) Why not prosecute Adobe? ;) Why not prosecute NWA? ;) Why not prosecute those engaged in conspiracy to torture or those involved in conspiracy to engage in constitution-violating administrative searches? Something is broken. This really shows misplaced priorities.

The FBI should be focusing on big time crooks, including political corruption and other law-breaking conspiracies in operation in the DC-area.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 7:17 pm


Originally Posted by studentff
Update: It's worth checking out the guy's blog again. The FBI obtained a warrant at 2 a.m. and conducted a wee-hours breakin to confiscate all of his computer equipment.

http://slightparanoia.blogspot.com/

Scans of the search warrant are posted there too.

Slashdot is also covering the story: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/28/2358202

I still don't see how generating fake boarding passes can be construed as ""conspiracy to knowingly present a false and fictitious claim upon or against the United States, or any department or agency thereof in violation of USC 18 (secs. 2, 371, 1036, 1343, 2318) and USC 49 (secs. 46314 and 46316) and 49 CFR (secs. 1540.103 and 1540.105)." :confused: Perhaps conspiracy to present a false claim against an airline, but not the United States? Since when is a boarding pass a federal document?

It seems to me that the feds are pissed off at being humiliated over the stupidity of their ID/BP policies and are taking it out on the kid/student by confiscating his computers. Even if they never file charges, it's unlikely that he will ever get his equipment back. I feel sorry for the guy.

Another knee-jerk overreaction due to another national ego-smashing revelation that the Emperor has no clothes? Never. :rolleyes: :(

The federal government will use the words in his blog against him. They will claim that it's a conspiracy by way of incitement to _____ or something like that. Unfortunately, in an America less free-dealing than before -- and certainly more paranoid than usual -- one is advised to refrain from engaging in political commentary that can be construed to be activities that actually reveal the Emperor has no clothes -- especially in the absence of legal advice or formulating it as expression more protected like political and commerical satire.

"Conspiracy to ____ ", "incitement to ____ ", and "aiding and abetting ____" is the kind of stuff LEOs and prosecutors resort to trying to stick on an individual when they don't have an actual criminal act conducted by the person themselves. In this day and age of "big catch" mentality, I wouldn't be surprised to see "terrorism-related" charges be mentioned by a camera-lover or people who visited the sites get knocks on the door. Welcome to the new America. :(

What's ridiculous is the FBI is going after a non-threat, according to the DHS/TSA itself:


The Transportation Security Administration says that what Soghoian has done is illegal and that using one of these bogus boarding passes would be illegal as well.

But, TSA officials also believe that it would do little to aid anyone looking to do harm to airline passengers.

"While you may be able to get access to the terminal's interior through the security checkpoint," said Ann Davis, a TSA spokeswoman, "TSA assures that every individual introduced to the sterile environment beyond the checkpoint and their accessible property have been thoroughly checked and screened."

If the TSA officials believe that this "would do little to aid anyone looking to do harm to airline passengers", then let's scrap the boarding pass and ID checks since the "TSA assures that every individual introduced to the sterile environment beyond the checkpoint and their accessible property have been thoroughly checked and screened".

So the FBI is wasting resources on something the TSA says is not a threat. :(

goaliemn Oct 28, 2006 7:31 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
So the FBI is wasting resources on something the TSA says is not a threat. :(

This happens all the time.. the TSA says small airplanes aren't a threat, but Chicago still wants flight restrictions and the FAA still put up a huge flight restricted area around Washington DC. Its all a kneejerk reaction to make people feel a bit better, when it isn't really a threat.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 7:42 pm


Originally Posted by WillTravel
I see he is soliciting legal funds for his defense. Is he expecting to be charged?

Yes, or at least he now seems prepared to expect to be charged and is preparing for such.

Don't be surprised if they find material unrelated to this matter - including say images of pornography retained in the caches/memory on the devices taken that may have gotten there from nothing more than annoying pop-ups or junk mail accidentally clicked on -- and then start bringing up that kind of stuff to engage in character assassination. :eek:

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 8:05 pm

Anyone want to make a bet that the website creator's travel habits and travel destinations enter into the discussion?

Unfortunately, one can't rule out some ignoramus from the government trying to do something like draw up a Saddam Hussein-OBL type "link" (i.e., the "link" fabricated by the federal government) by using the Armenian-American website creator's upcoming visit to Morocco -- ewww, big bad muslim-majority country -- and this boarding pass generator to "investigate further" "out of an abundance of caution". :rolleyes:

Some federal government employee looking for a fact-finding trip to Morocco when the cold winter strikes would not shock me.

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 8:09 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder
What would North Korea do to the boarding pass engine creator? Send their version of "the men" to "have a talk"? :eek:

North Korea does repeat visits too, including in the middle of the night even when there is no urgency. :eek:

I guess we send our version of "the men" to "have a talk" and then some too. :eek:

joelfreak Oct 28, 2006 8:14 pm

Well, I put my money where my mouth is, and gave some cash to this guy to defend himself against ridiculous charges, whatever they are...and even if there aren't any, the guy needs to fix up his apartment after they stormed it...

frink Oct 28, 2006 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by joelfreak
Well, I put my money where my mouth is, and gave some cash to this guy to defend himself against ridiculous charges, whatever they are...and even if there aren't any, the guy needs to fix up his apartment after they stormed it...

Same here.

Doppy Oct 28, 2006 8:35 pm


Originally Posted by studentff
It seems to me that the feds are pissed off at being humiliated over the stupidity of their ID/BP policies and are taking it out on the kid/student by confiscating his computers. Even if they never file charges, it's unlikely that he will ever get his equipment back. I feel sorry for the guy.

Beautiful! File this one under "attack the whistleblower."

GUWonder Oct 28, 2006 8:49 pm


Originally Posted by Doppy
Beautiful! File this one under "attack the whistleblower."

That's probably the best PR approach for the website creator.


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