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Old Jul 1, 2006 | 1:16 am
  #31  
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If SSSS is printed on a boarding pass, what's to stop someone getting white out--something like that--copying the "sanitized" boarding pass, then just sailing through security?
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Old Jul 1, 2006 | 3:46 am
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Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
If SSSS is printed on a boarding pass, what's to stop someone getting white out--something like that--copying the "sanitized" boarding pass, then just sailing through security?
There's (at least) one problem (at some places) with that "method", if done in isolation. At the gate, when the gate agent scans whatever your are submitting to be scanned to board, they may get notified that you were selected for haraSSSSment and are to check the boarding document to see if the TSA has marked it (and you) as being checked per haraSSSSment requirements. Of course that "mark" is not too hard to "doctor" either.

However easy or difficult to circumvent, this haraSSSSment at airports should end.
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Old Jul 1, 2006 | 2:12 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by ContinentalFan
If SSSS is printed on a boarding pass, what's to stop someone getting white out--something like that--copying the "sanitized" boarding pass, then just sailing through security?
Presumably, many airlines' BP readers might choke on the BP, indicating it was SSSS and asking the GA to verify it was marked by the TSA as being checked. Of course, how often this actually is done and how effective it is is open for speculation and likely not that great, IMHO.
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Old Jul 1, 2006 | 4:07 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
There's (at least) one problem (at some places) with that "method", if done in isolation. At the gate, when the gate agent scans whatever your are submitting to be scanned to board, they may get notified that you were selected for haraSSSSment and are to check the boarding document to see if the TSA has marked it (and you) as being checked per haraSSSSment requirements. Of course that "mark" is not too hard to "doctor" either.

However easy or difficult to circumvent, this haraSSSSment at airports should end.
I see. I didn't realize that they put some kind of a mark on the document.

Remember back in the days of people being randomly pulled from the line--the ultimate in asinine security measures--it was quite easy to get the mark of the boarding card back then. I was hoping that SSSS was something similar!

I think if I every get SSSS'd, I will take the boarding pass to the Presidents Club and photocopy it. I want to make sure I recognize that mark in the future.
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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 12:20 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by Superguy
While I don't think having a clearance should exempt one from screening on the grounds you say, you see why it makes us laugh when SSI is thrown in our face and we're told that we have no clue about security. I still maintain that SSI is nothing more than glorified FOUO and below confidential.
SSI? Is that the same as Sensitive but Unclassified? I'm confused. Never heard that Acronym before....
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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 12:41 am
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I've had people with prohibited items (scissors---when they were prohibited---knives, tools, etc) argue that they had a secret security clearance or even top secret clearance and that they shouldn't even have to undergo screening. I understand the logic of what they're saying but not the practicality of what they're saying. They are, of course, only looking at it from a purely selfish perspective of being inconvenienced without looking at the big picture of how TSA can safely by-pass screening for some people and not for others.
Agreed they don't deserve special rights (like allowing prohibitted items), but for airports creating frequent traveler expresslanes shouldn't OPM ease the burden of conducting reinvestigations on those who already underwent a more extensive background check within the last 7 years?

Also, we have heard stories providing at least anecdotal evidence of people being constantly SSSSed because of their name, regardless of ticket buying patterns, etc. I'm not saying they should drop the SSSSes triggered by suspicious buying patterns, but they should at least be able to remove that person's name flag if they possess a clearance (again, this is not possible due to inefficiencies in the system).

Here is my "problem" for those who have security clearances and think they are above the law: as a counterintelligence special agent, my caseload was devoted exclusively to those with security clearances who were suspected of a wide variety of crimes ranging from security violations to conducting espionage against the United States. Never had a dry spell. Someone with a security clearance is ALWAYS doing something to draw scrutiny to his or her eligibity for continued trust and access to classified information. Not saying that everyone who has a security clearance shouldn't be trusted. Just saying that having a security clearance is not an automatic guarantee of trust.
I agree with everything said here, but I don't think is has to do with the TSA's mission of safe air travel. I have enough faith in the system that if someone is involved in a violent anti-american group, they will not be issued a TS clearance.

Side note: interesting career jump from counterintelligence agent to TSA screener....
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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 6:48 am
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Originally Posted by Bart
TSA doesn't conduct rectal exams, doesn't conduct breast exams nor any other examination that requires the removal of clothing or exposure of genetalia, breasts, buttocks or anything else along those lines.
Then I withdraw my application for employment there.

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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 1:04 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by elektronic
SSI? Is that the same as Sensitive but Unclassified? I'm confused. Never heard that Acronym before....
It's TSA's acronym for Sensitive Security Information. AKA on FT as Super Secret Information. As Bart has confirmed, it's nothing more than an unclassified document that would be considered FOUO (For Official Use Only).

It would be below confidential in the classified pyramid.
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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 5:13 pm
  #39  
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And we really must acknowledge that anything given or told to 45,000 screeners with huge annual turnover can hardly be considered secret. I can't imagine that any classified document gets such wide distribution. It's nothing short of amazing when the occasional screener says, "How do you know our policies? Those are secret." Yeah, sure they are!

Bruce
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Old Aug 6, 2006 | 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Superguy
It's TSA's acronym for Sensitive Security Information. AKA on FT as Super Secret Information. As Bart has confirmed, it's nothing more than an unclassified document that would be considered FOUO (For Official Use Only).

It would be below confidential in the classified pyramid.
Thanks. Looking it up on the DSS website, FOUO, SBU and SSI all appear to have similar handling requirements (slight variation in destruction and transmittal requirements), just different agency endorsements (Defense, State and TSA, respectively). They are all unclassified, but have restricted dissemination, and have an exception to the FOIA.
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Old Aug 7, 2006 | 7:30 am
  #41  
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One one hand, it would make sense for the security clearance investigative organizations who certify eligibility for clearances or those agencies who actually grant clearances to share this data base with the TSA and to have toe TSA create a "no-SSSS" list or something like that. If nothing else, it would remove hundreds of thousands of low-risk people (without regard to any profiling characteristic, by the way) from various lists and reduce the size of the haystack in which the TSA is supposedly trying to find a needle.

On the other hand, this would create huge issues. First, the TSA can't properly handle or administer the lists it has right now, and has demonstrated no desire to do so. Second, the TSA lists are lists of names and the roster of security clearances are lists of actual living, breathing people, so the two types of lists are not compatible. Thirdly, does anyone with a clearance really want their personal information (really personal information) in the hands of yet another government agency, especially one that has demonstrated no ability or desire to comply with laws governing collection and protection of personal information???

Finally, absolutely nobody earning a TSA paycheck from Hawley on down needs to know what clearance I have, why I have it, who granted it, or why I am traveling.
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Old Aug 7, 2006 | 7:45 am
  #42  
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Thirdly, does anyone with a clearance really want their personal information (really personal information) in the hands of yet another government agency, especially one that has demonstrated no ability or desire to comply with laws governing collection and protection of personal information???

Finally, absolutely nobody earning a TSA paycheck from Hawley on down needs to know what clearance I have, why I have it, who granted it, or why I am traveling.
I was just talking with a friend yesterday who's a contractor for DHS. He said just last week he was in a spat with his "government boss" over the Privacy Act of 1974. When I commented to him that I wasn't surprised they had issues with it, he said "Super, I thought DoD was bad about noncompliance, but a lot of their issues were just laziness. DHS really takes the cake with its willful ignorance of the law."

Pretty much what it came down to is DHS asked him to violate the Privacy Act and he told them to go fly a kite. While it caused a stir for him, it worked out, and he's still sticking to his guns. ^
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Old Aug 7, 2006 | 10:57 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Superguy
I was just talking with a friend yesterday who's a contractor for DHS. He said just last week he was in a spat with his "government boss" over the Privacy Act of 1974. When I commented to him that I wasn't surprised they had issues with it, he said "Super, I thought DoD was bad about noncompliance, but a lot of their issues were just laziness. DHS really takes the cake with its willful ignorance of the law."
DoD just told our company security folks to return all the SF86's (and electronic versions that supplanted them) to the people who submitted them, and for the company to no longer hold onto them at all due to Privacy Act concerns.

DHS probably told its contractors to send them all to them for "safekeeping."
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Old Aug 7, 2006 | 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much
Finally, absolutely nobody earning a TSA paycheck from Hawley on down needs to know what clearance I have, why I have it, who granted it, or why I am traveling.
Concur- When/if asked, I will show TO's but nothing else. THey sure as hell don't have a need to know on anything else!!!!!
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Old Aug 7, 2006 | 11:47 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by exerda
DoD just told our company security folks to return all the SF86's (and electronic versions that supplanted them) to the people who submitted them, and for the company to no longer hold onto them at all due to Privacy Act concerns.
Interesting. Wonder if they told my company that.

DHS probably told its contractors to send them all to them for "safekeeping."
They probably made the offer to DoD, DoE, etc to "help" them out too.
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