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Old Dec 11, 2004 | 9:28 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by bdschobel
Oh, please. Stop thinking that obvious facts are somehow secret.

Bruce
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Old Dec 12, 2004 | 2:37 am
  #32  
 
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On a recent business trip to a small, relatively lightly-visited island, there were a bunch of hurricanes banging around the Caribbean. As a result, tourism was very low.

I checked into a small hotel, atop a mountain, from which my room had a great view of the airport a few miles away. I saw the last international flight of the day arrive - and about a half-hour later I saw a taxi climbing up the winding road below. I heard it come into the courtyard.

A short while later, as I was eating dinner in the otherwise empty dining room, two young men (at my age that means anyone under 50) came in. They each had shorter than fashionable hair cuts, clearly were in great physical shape, wore the same style of sensible, comfortable shoes I've seen on cops all over the USA and had watchful eyes that took in the details of the dining room as they entered but I noted they carefully avoided contact or even acknowlegdment of me right there in front of them on the open-air deck.

They took a table away from the impressive nightime view, all the way in the back, against the wall. When I got up to leave and walked right past them, they studiously avoided eye-contact but clearly were looking carefully at the rest of me as if I might whip out a machete and chop them up.

The taxi picked them up in the morning, before breakfast, for the first international flight out.

Gee, I wonder what they do for a living?
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Old Dec 12, 2004 | 9:17 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by caribejoe
On a recent business trip to a small, relatively lightly-visited island, there were a bunch of hurricanes banging around the Caribbean. As a result, tourism was very low.

I checked into a small hotel, atop a mountain, from which my room had a great view of the airport a few miles away. I saw the last international flight of the day arrive - and about a half-hour later I saw a taxi climbing up the winding road below. I heard it come into the courtyard.

A short while later, as I was eating dinner in the otherwise empty dining room, two young men (at my age that means anyone under 50) came in. They each had shorter than fashionable hair cuts, clearly were in great physical shape, wore the same style of sensible, comfortable shoes I've seen on cops all over the USA and had watchful eyes that took in the details of the dining room as they entered but I noted they carefully avoided contact or even acknowlegdment of me right there in front of them on the open-air deck.

They took a table away from the impressive nightime view, all the way in the back, against the wall. When I got up to leave and walked right past them, they studiously avoided eye-contact but clearly were looking carefully at the rest of me as if I might whip out a machete and chop them up.

The taxi picked them up in the morning, before breakfast, for the first international flight out.

Gee, I wonder what they do for a living?
Actually, from your very vivid description, they sounded more like a couple of hitmen or assassins than they did FAM's.
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Old Dec 12, 2004 | 9:34 am
  #34  
 
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You are right - and for all they knew, I may have been one of those mild-mannered, old-school assassins who sneaks up on his relaxed targets by appearing to be a harmless 72 year old man.

As Satchel Paige used to say, "One never know, do one?"
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Old Dec 12, 2004 | 6:12 pm
  #35  
 
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I would bet that they were not FAMS. Even with a valid reason or information to be sent there, a trip to a nice tourist Island could almost be construed as "nice". HQ def. does not want any FAM thinking something is "nice".

Of course it could have been HQ staff from DHS or some similar agency scouting locations for an annual awards ceremony.....
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Old Dec 13, 2004 | 3:20 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by caribejoe
You are right - and for all they knew, I may have been one of those mild-mannered, old-school assassins who sneaks up on his relaxed targets by appearing to be a harmless 72 year old man.

As Satchel Paige used to say, "One never know, do one?"
Hey - it worked for Pat Morita in all those Karate Kid movies. Ralph Macchio - geez - but Mr. Miyagi - stay out of that cat's way!
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Old Dec 13, 2004 | 6:27 am
  #37  
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FAM's make sense

The existence of FAM's make more sense than almost any other aspect of visible security in air travel. The fact that they are present on a statistically significant number of flights will actually deter any repeat of a 9/11 type plot. On the other hand, because of that fact, with the exception of an occasional "nut" case or a drunk passenger (not a terrorist), no one in the entire FAM service will ever be required to use any of their skills. They will, instead, be relegated to occasionally changing the inter-agent hand signals and airline crew "altert" words. It will be interesting to see, after 5 years, how many good agents will continue with a profession with less action than an office building security guard.
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Old Dec 13, 2004 | 10:02 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by sbrower
The existence of FAM's make more sense than almost any other aspect of visible security in air travel. The fact that they are present on a statistically significant number of flights will actually deter any repeat of a 9/11 type plot. ....
Sorry, I have to strongly disagree. The existance of FAMs onboard aircraft will have nothing to do with deterring another 9/11 style attack....the only procedural change that will deter another attempting hijacking is the reinforcement of flight deck doors and strictly following the rule that under no circumstances is the flight deck door to be opened under duress regardless of what is happening in the cabin.

The cost of reinforcing the doors is substantial, but has already been done and paid for - the cost of following the rule on never opening the door is free of any monetary cost, and in the words of Mastercard, is 'priceless'. We don't need a multi-million dollar bureaucracy created to address this issue.

The FAM program has become a mess with participants divided into three families - the rent-a-cop thugs who think they are de facto Army Rangers empowered by God himself to arrest and interrogate anyone who blinks an eye; the befuddled marshalls who flew through training, are not quite sure how to react in an emergency, and who leave their weapons in the lav while taking a pee; and finally the few good folks out there who really thought they were signing up for something worthwhile, are proud of what they are trying to do, mind their business unless faced with a true emergency, and who are continually abused and stymied by an out of control management layer who threw the program together on a cocktail napkin and are more concerned with the color of everyones' sportcoats than the proper design and operation of the program.

There was nothing wrong with the old FAM program that was primarily used on international flights - if that program, as it existed, was expanded to some domestic flights, I doubt anyone at FT would have had a problem with it, or in fact, ever noticed it happened. This was the proper path to follow, however prevailing logic in the Administration is 'show and tell', so the citizens can 'see' something is being done, and can be more easily trained to remain in fear, hence the big public announcement and spots on the nightly news.

Now how about the two FAMs who strutted through the west-side DCA security checkpoint this past Saturday at 1pm, in full view of about 200 people, walking up through the 'exit' line with big grins, showing their credentials to the guard and making sure everyone in that half of the terminal saw and heard them. Sounds like these two need a refresher course on keeping a low profile.
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Old Dec 13, 2004 | 7:06 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
Now how about the two FAMs who strutted through the west-side DCA security checkpoint this past Saturday at 1pm, in full view of about 200 people, walking up through the 'exit' line with big grins, showing their credentials to the guard and making sure everyone in that half of the terminal saw and heard them. Sounds like these two need a refresher course on keeping a low profile.
The division you speak of in the FAM program can happen anywhere; any workplace can have the cockstrutters, the slugs and the crusaders. The sad thing is that the blatant exposure of FAMs to the traveling public inspires the attitude of Jack Nicholson's Joker - "If you're gonna go, then go with a smile." This agency that once kept things under wraps (as it still should) was unfortunately taken over by people from the Secret Service. The S.S., however, believes in deterrence of violence through maintenance of a highly visible presence. However, these highly visible agents face their potential threats unlike the FAMs who have to be exposed to the passengers and then board a plane having to turn their backs to everyone. These men and women can do nothing about it but "roll with the punches." It's up to the traveling public to voice their concerns to those politicians who may actually be trying to do some good for the FAM agency.
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Old Dec 15, 2004 | 5:15 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen

The FAM program has become a mess with participants divided into three families - the rent-a-cop thugs who think they are de facto Army Rangers empowered by God himself to arrest and interrogate anyone who blinks an eye; the befuddled marshalls who flew through training, are not quite sure how to react in an emergency, and who leave their weapons in the lav while taking a pee; and finally the few good folks out there who really thought they were signing up for something worthwhile, are proud of what they are trying to do, mind their business unless faced with a true emergency, and who are continually abused and stymied by an out of control management layer who threw the program together on a cocktail napkin and are more concerned with the color of everyones' sportcoats than the proper design and operation of the program.


Now how about the two FAMs who strutted through the west-side DCA security checkpoint this past Saturday at 1pm, in full view of about 200 people, walking up through the 'exit' line with big grins, showing their credentials to the guard and making sure everyone in that half of the terminal saw and heard them. Sounds like these two need a refresher course on keeping a low profile.

Those two FAMS most likely had big grins on their faces trying to "laugh in the face of adversity." None of us like doing the "stroll of shame" as we call it. We are forced to deal with procedures and regulations that we did not create, and every airport, with every different FSD has his or her own "orders" on how to cooperate with the FAM service.

Your first paragraph is backwards. It is true there are some thugs (every agency, and civilian job has them) and a few "befuddled" types. Most have been weeded out thank goodness, and will continue to be if what I see on a daily basis continues. However, the majority are the highly trained, and motivated, and previously experienced people you refer too.
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Old Dec 15, 2004 | 5:28 pm
  #41  
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[QUOTE=bbc1969]Those two FAMS most likely had big grins on their faces trying to "laugh in the face of adversity." [QUOTE]

I'd also ask how he knows they were FAMs and not members of several other federal gun-carrying services. There are a lot of those in DC; some with agents that fly less than FAMs do. Maybe they were smiling because they were leaving DC?
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Old Dec 15, 2004 | 6:19 pm
  #42  
 
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[QUOTE=AArlington][QUOTE=bbc1969]Those two FAMS most likely had big grins on their faces trying to "laugh in the face of adversity."

I'd also ask how he knows they were FAMs and not members of several other federal gun-carrying services. There are a lot of those in DC; some with agents that fly less than FAMs do. Maybe they were smiling because they were leaving DC?

That is very possible. I know I smile each and every time I leave D.C.. You are right, numerous law enforcement agents go through all the D.C. area airports on a daily basis.
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Old Dec 15, 2004 | 7:15 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by bbc1969
That is very possible. I know I smile each and every time I leave D.C.. You are right, numerous law enforcement agents go through all the D.C. area airports on a daily basis.
I agree with the numerous part. The ones I see are pretty easy to spot. I'm curious as to how many I don't see...
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Old Dec 20, 2004 | 4:08 pm
  #44  
 
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Call me stupid...

but what if you do see someone carrying an item that not everyone is entitled to carry and you don't know that they are FAM? Question it or keep your mouth shut and hope for the best?
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Old Dec 20, 2004 | 4:15 pm
  #45  
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Without a doubt keep your mouth shut. If you "notice" someone who turns out to be an air marshal, you will be detained and questioned. It's happened already, as reported in numerous newspaper stories. They figure that anybody that observant must be a terrorist in training. Best to keep your eyes cast down, citizen!

Bruce
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