LGA_UAL

I know we have covered this before, but I must say that after today I am really confused. Therefore, I was wondering if some of the TSAers on FT can resolve something for me. For the life of me, I don't understand this profile shoe thing. I always wear the same new balance shoes, and I only have to take them off ~10% of the time. So who is not doing their job here? The soles are certainly less than one inch and there is no metal in the shoes. However, today I was told that my shoes meet the "profile" when I attempted to wear them through the WTMD, yet they didn't last week at the same airport. I know the same inconsistencies occur for everyone everywhere, but how does the TSA explain this and is it really supposed to be up to the individual screener, or are individual screeners just exercising their authority? I don't understand the current process. If you are supposed to take off shoes with soles greater than one inch, why don't they just have a ruler and not comment about on other shoes? If my shoes are profile, I will be more than happy to remove them at the WTMD, but I would probably also find a new pair of shoes. However, since it's only every 9/10 times, I highly doubt they are really profile, otherwise, 9/10 TSA screeners aren't doing their job.

Oh wise TSA gurus, help me understand your agency...

eyecue

Its a judgement call. The thickness is based on the view from the screener. I can tell you that shoes look thicker than they are. Expecially the tennis shoe. Soles wrap around the heel and the arch area. We cant put a ruler out there as this would just add to the mess. There are some screeners that prefer you take off all shoes just to reduce the arguments about the thickness. All shoes must be screened! This means that we look at them. If they meet the criteria, we ask that you remove them for X-ray exam. This is by far the quickest way for us to evaluate them. If you dont want to take them off, we still have to screen them. You get sent down for your shoes to be checked and end up with the full secondary screening. IF they dont meet the criteria for thickness, we try to figure if they have metal shanks in them and advise you of that. however, TSA looking at them fulfills the screening requirement IF THEY ARENT OVER THE THICKNESS.

TSASuper

I concur with eyecue.

First, we are looking to see if the shoes meet the profiled criteria. This is a judgement call by the screener. Sorry, but that's how it is. If it meets the screeners definition and you continue while wearing the shoes, you may be refered for additional screening.

Second, we are determining if the shoes may possibly have the steel shanks. As a courtesy, we will inform you that they may have shanks and you may want to consider removing them to save time. Sometimes the screeners are wrong and they have no shanks. They're using their best judgment on those. I've been wrong oon the shoes before too.

Sometimes, screeners may "flex their pecs" and request all shoes to be removed. It's supposed to be a request and not a demand. Talk to a supervisor if that's the case.

channa

As with everything TSA, that's not consistent. If you get sent to secondary solely (no pun intended ) for shoes, in some locations, they do a secondary only on the shoes. While this may not be procedure, it certainly makes more sense than a full secondary.

AArlington

I had the full secondary (complete with wallet removal and x-ray) on account of my non-alarming shoes (or refusal to remove them). I even asked the guy "all this because I kept me shoes on?" His reply -- yes.

SEA_Tigger

It depends on the station. SEA (at least the Concourse D and N checkpoint) requires all footwear to be removed. I have seen open-toed shoes with soles measured in microns be removed and screened.

My shoes evidently don't set off the detector (since I walked right through LHR with them on), but due to their design (hiking boots) I know they meet the TSA profile so I humor them and always take them off and run them through.

HUB Flyer

There is no standard. Only a screener’s interpretation of vague rule.

From the TSA website:
“If you wear shoes that have thick-soles, including boots, certain athletic shoes, and platform shoes, or have shoes with metal, you will likely be required to undergo additional screening, even if the metal detector does not alarm.
http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?th...000519800e12f4

It’s up to the screener to decide what ‘thick’ means. I never remove my shoes, even when it’s “recommended.”


Even though you may ‘think’ they have shanks, I know they don’t. This is confirmed when I walk through with them on and there is no alarm. However, many times I am sent to secondary anyway.

The last time this happened at RDU and I was sent to secondary my shoes were never screened, only wanded. But the screener should have known the wand would turn up nothing since they didn’t alarm while walking through the WTMD, no?


This is false. Here is what appears on the TSA website:

“You are NOT REQUIRED to remove your shoes before you enter the walk-through metal detector.” (their emphasis)

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?th...000519800b68b8

It’s all a time/money wasting exercise that adds zero security.

GradGirl

Just a slight quibble: the wand metal detector is much more sensitive than the walk-through. For instance, underwire in a bra will generally not set off the walk-through metal detector but will definitely set off the hand-held wand metal detector.

But I agree with you that shoe removal is a waste of everyone's time and money.

LessO2

1. If "all shoes must be screened" then why do airport employees get to walk through witht them on? You do not know if they are boarding an aircraft or not, do you?

2. If speed and efficiency is so paramount at the TSA, then why does someone who does not want to remove their shoes get the complete business, not just their shoes looked at?

3. "Well, they're doing it wrong." How many times do you say that to people each day. Yes, I am one of those people who say that every time I wear my Nikes when I fly (almost every time). When DEN is one out of ten airports that I have gone through that requires (let's not kid ourselves) shoe removal, at which point do you actually think that you guys are the ones wasting everyone's (including yours) time?

Spiff

Also, the little pinko in charge of DEN is paying overtime and other expenses to COS screeners to come up and participate in his sicko Shoecapades.

eyecue

Airport employees are exempt from the shoe rules by virtue of the fact that they are wearing a SIDA badge and have submitted to a background check.

TSA screeners are prohibited from doing what you describe because it would add to confusion. If there are five people in queue line for secondary, it is not reasonable for the screener to know that some are in for shoes and others in for bulky clothes while others may have alarmed the walkthrough. Screeners cannot ask "what are you in for?" The likelyhood of getting a real answer is not good. Add to this the fact that someone that is refusing to remove something MAY be hiding an item, therefore everyone that gets sent to secondary screening gets the full service.

Security is not a waste of time. Since I work at DEN I can tell you that we are one of the tightest on shoes. There are some screeners that ask you to remove your shoes regardless of the thickness. There is a standard on this thickness and it has been posted before on this board. There are other airports that dont enforce the shoe policy as tightly as DEN does. That is where the "well, they are doing it wrong" comes from. You could get ten screeners in a room and give them ten pair of different shoes and they all wont agree on whether they come off to be xrayed or left on. Then you may run into the one screener that likes to x-ray everything. We have found some interesting stuff in shoes so it is worthwhile to prevent another shoe bomber attempt. We have to guard against another attempt to exploit the shoe as a mode of concealment for prohibited items.

eyecue

The rule that is posted in the SOP isnt vague. It is very clear. The TSA website tries to be explanatory without disclosing SSI.

I beg to differ about the zero security. We have to guard against a repeat attempt at a shoe bomber. We cannot be naive to the fact that it was tried once. You dont have to take shoes off. We prefer that you do. It is better screening to look at them on X-ray. If they dont come off, then screeners have to decide if you are hiding something, being obstinate or following your beliefs about several things like the floor being dirty, you having diabetes, etc. So when presented with all the possibilities, if you dont submit your shoes for x-ray, you are most likely going to be secondarily screened.

eyecue

Justification for that remark comes from???

Spiff

Sorry, pal. That's SSI.

Feel free to prove me wrong, though.

Spiff

And it's for reasons like these and others that I will not stop lobbying for the TSA to be permanently disbanded. Support for such disenfranchisement grows daily, too.