We get the ICE (among every other division) emails also. Didn't specifically see that one but again there are a hundred or so pages a day.

The testing using other federal personnel is part of the internal tests on the airport level. Getting different faces keeps the tests fresh.

They shouldn't be naive. Until such time the human factor is taken out of the equation there will always be potential for an item to get through. My defense is that the numbers are not as rampant as they once were reported and TSA screeners have worked very hard to decrease the number of failures.

It was not plane loads. It has only happened on 1 flight.

I am by no means being naive. I have ZERO confidence in the TSA. Neither the TSA or the FAM's have done, nor will do, anything to prevent terrorism.

Originally Posted by FmrBPNowFAM
How much law enforcement experience and experience with firearms do you have? My guess is little to none.[/QOUTE]

For who. Wackenhut? Ok, rent-a-cop.

An opinion from someone who has no LE experience, and an opinion that is in the minority among the general public.

I'm sure its the overwhelming majority. Go find a thousand people who think the FAM program is idiotic. I bet 99% won't have LE experience.

Your opinion.

So, one has to have "LE experience" in order to analyze the threat and determine an appropriate response? Just because one has been the Sheriff of Mulberry (or even a 20-year veteran FBI agent) does not mean that one has the right answers on an airplane. There are 'civilians' (people without the 'required' "LE experience") who have studied the risks and appropriate responses as well. I'm not saying there aren't well trained and thoughtful FAMs, just that I believe the continual references to "LE experience" are canards used to shut down debate (you don't have LE experience so you can't possibly have a reasonable or thoughtful position).

In my opinion, the real issue here is what is the cost (to taxpayers, people who want the seats the FAMs take, the airlines) versus the benefit we as taxpayers and the travelling public are getting from the program as currently operated in return. Based upon numerous factors, but ultimately heavily decided by much more devastating risks that the US is not addressing (nuclear power plants, shipping ports, etc.), I think there are better uses for our resources than the FAM program.

Now, we can have a reasoned debate about this, or we can continue to pound our chests and call each other names.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Next thing you will probably spout is that you put your life on the line daily to keep air travellers safe.

If you do think that, I feel very sorry for you.

It's an opinion based in factual evidence.

A: The TSA has caught no terrorists.
B: The pointy object search is not a search for terrorists, it's a window dressing charade.
C: The Shoe Carnival is not a search for terrorists, it's a knee jerk response to one incident. An incident, by the way that was foiled by the flight crew and passengers.

Here you say you have "zero" confidence in TSA, but earlier you said you would "take your chances with TSA" over FAMS. Make up your mind..
Also Hundreds of Local, state and other Feds take guns on aircraft everyday.. So even if you get rid of FAMS you'll still have both bad guys and other cops with guns up there. Plus pilots.. Now one of the first things I was taught as a cop was that in any fight I'm in there is always a gun, mine. A good deal of officers are killed by their own weapons every year in different situations. I don't know if FAMS is the answer, but it is what we have so far.. For you to blame us and discount our efforts is really disheartening.

Yup. That's why I wrote "inter-agency" bickering rather than "intra-agency" bickering. Not to bicker, mind you! ;)

Best wishes,

Teacher49

I'll repeat myself AGAIN.

There should be NO firearms brought aboard a commercial airliner PERIOD. If a law enforcement professional needs their firearm at their destination, it should be checked.

Sorry if you feel disheartened, but I am looking at this boondogle realistically.

And, yes you read my statement correctly. I do have zero confidence in the TSA. That should tell you how much confidence I have in the FAM program.

Not that you are aware of. Your information is based on the media which isn't always given all the information for security reasons (sure you will come up with some statement calling us liars)

Your opinion.

Again opinion.

Please either check your facts or do not lie, depending on if you know of the other incidents. There was more than one incident.

The best documented was the DL flight to PHL in which a marshal held 100+ pax at gunpoint. Administrators praise the marshal and said he acted properly. There are so many links to this incident that it makes it hard to find links to others.

http://www.gs-3.com/news020303.html

In another incident, a man got up on an SLC flight and all pax were made to place their hands behind their heads for half an hour.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45298,00.html

http://ynwi.com/~lysol/jesda/themogu/thefire/wbb.html

I somewhat remember other incidents, but can't find liks because they were about 2 years ago and the links are gone. The fact that recent indicents have not led to this disgrace supports my hypothesis that this nit wit policy of holding the cabin at gunpoint after the marshals are exposed has been eliminated.

Prior to this stream of incidents, I believed in and supported the concept of the FAM program. These disgusting overreactions caused me to have serious doubts. This sort of treatment terrorizes pax and should result in personal apologies from the leadership and front-line of the FAMs to all of the victims.

Look, I'll say this once and use small words -

The PHL incident involved a FAM arresting a passenger. The passenger fought. The FAM was fighting the passenger when some of the passengers stood up to watch the show (like some of the good rubberneckers they are), which blocked the other FAMs view of what was happening. He lost line-of-sight of his partner which no one should eve allow. He instructed people to sit down but of course they did not. And let me tell you, if I give you a lawful order (especially if my partner is in the middle of a fight) you are going to obey one way or another.

So apparently they weren't ALL LAWFUL passengers.

After they finally get the situation under control they did not know if that was the end of it and did what they were trained to do at the time - they waited it out.

And you want one set of crystal clear set of procedures is because you are ignorant of law enforcement matters.

Well, since FAMs came from "real" law enforcement or military I guess you are just silly then...

And if this is your idea of tactics thank God you aren't in law enforcement or the military because that is absolutely stupid.