Yes you are. You are comparing. Use a different example.

The issue at hand has nothing to do with the actions of FAMs. It has to do with outing them. What action have they done that warrants this? You seem to be arguing for it.

"Doing their jobs" is no defense for criminal actions. It is a defense for not f_ing with them if they have not done anything.

I guess you blame the soldiers in Iraq if you are against the war. It is their fault.

Bruce made an idiotic and ridiculous comparison and then tried to absolve himself of blame by saying that it wasn't his intention to compare.

He deserved to be attacked.

And FWAAA, 9/11 wasn't a figure of anyone's imagination. Has happened before and will happen again. In the same vein as 9/11? Don't know and neither do you. Back to Clauswitz "Prepare for your enemy's capabilites rather than his intentions".

Whatever you say. :rolleyes:

After all, you say you are a fed LEO and we have to listen to you, because you are so much smarter than lowly frequent flyers. :rolleyes:

Several years ago, I worked in a highly classified defense program that had a group of journalists who made careers by "outing" what we did and how we did it. The general reaction from the insiders was to accuse them of treason, expell them from the country, etc, etc -- general contempt. To the public, we looked pretty stupid at times.

But, as time wore on, they showed us that what we were trying to protect really didn't make sense and was completely unprotectable. These outsiders forced us to rethink our basic philisophy and organizational culture. We changed for the better and saved the taxpayers bundles.

Maybe we're doing the same thing for the FAM program???

I know precisely what he was making. He was making an analogy, an analogy between FAMS and Nazis. An analogy is a comparison to illustrate similarity. His analogy is inflamatory, obscene, and offensive. His suggestion that FAMS are in any way similar to Nazis ascribes a complete lack of integrity and decency on his part, because he probably knows better. Moderator indeed...

Never said that. Do say that I know my job better than you know my job. Wouldn't dream of telling you how to do yours but lots of folks here think they know enough to tell LEOs how to do theirs. Even though they wouldn't dream of telling someone how to pour concrete they know enough to tell trained LEOs what is what. Crazy.

By comparing them to Nazis?

Yeah, sick the TOS on him. Oh wait, that only applies to the LEOs and TSA people on the forum.....

TOS applies to everyone.

Unfortunately there is not an active moderator in this forum

We have the capacity to ban users system wide, but I do tend to agree, the TOS is being stepped on by many members here.

He is a moderator and is one of the worst offenders, in my BS opinion. Nazis and FAMs....that is wrong no matter how he tries to shade it.

I have no anger management issues. In my post that referenced "Nazi's" I tried to make an example as silly as the one I was referencing. I even stated it was silly, but trying to make the point about comparisons.

I could ask you the same questions about anger managment, look at some of the statements you have posted here, including the little joke a few posts earlier.

I have been posting here for about a month. If you look back I have tried to avoid "flame" and tried to post proper "give and take", non abusive messages.

In my other posts I simply tried to explain why I thought the original post was "giving away too much info".

Bruce is one of the Flyer Talk members who I have had the pleasure of meeting personally.

While he and I often disagree on politics, I consider him to be a fine person and don't believe that he was intending to be insulting. I will take him at his word when he said, "I am not suggesting for one second that air marshals are comparable to Nazi war criminals."

Although he could (and should) have chosen a less hideous and emotionally-charged comparison, he was was attempting only to get across his point that simply "doing their jobs" is not a valid reason for carrying out what he considers to be an incorrect policy.

Bruce and I differ on the concept of FAMs, and I certainly consider his wording to be ill-advised, but let's not make more of it than it was.

I am making it was it is. His analogy, apart from being hideous, is wrong. Nazi war criminals committed actions. FAMs, particularly in the example posted, are not. If a FAM executes someone simply for being Arabic, then they cannot say "I was only doing my job" and no one is suggesting they could. But to equate a guy sitting there minding his own business doing his job with a Nazi is beyond repulsive in my opinion. Maybe because I know so many FAMs and have trained with them. Maybe because it is just one more step to make it ALL LEs in the analogy.

Once he apologizes then we can start fresh.

I want to reiterate that I don't feel like I compromised anything in my statement. Keep in mind the OP and the well-documented fact that FAMs make NO effort maintain anonymity, especially when boarding early. Putting their "pieces" under the seat or whatever they do - I don't know, but they fool NO ONE when they board the aircraft before anyone else.

Keep in mind that several people's intention is to board the aircraft as quickly as possible - amount of things they carry require overhead bins, etc. When is the last time you checked a bag, God forbid? See threads arguing over who is responsible for the increase in theft - TSA or airline employees capitalizing on unlocked bags. When I'm in coach, I make every effort to board as early during AA's Group 1 as possible to get my stuff in somewhat close proximity to my seat. Being among the first on the plane is a perk given to frequent fliers on most airlines, right? So, all eyes are on the doors as the time to board draws near. This is the time that FAMs walk through the masses, past the GA and onto the plane, much to bewilderment of the non-frequent fliers that are dumbfounded someone gets to cut in line. This is especially true when a flight is delayed which seems to be the case for me more and more.

So, of course they stick out. My post was intended to point out that even something as simple as scanning their tickets causes their identity to be known to anyone that missed their entrance parade.

I don't even have an opinion one way or another about the FAMs, and I have many more questions than I have answers:

1. Do they get miles?
2. Who pays for the trips?
3. What do the tickets cost?

2&3 are good questions in my mind. In other words, is the government adding to the bottom line at struggling airlines by paying full fare (changes the meaning of FAM rate doesn't it?), or is the airline forced to take on this additional cost - not having a full fare F or not upgrading someone?

The thing is I don't even care enough about this to ask these questions - SO, PLEASE DON'T TAKE UP SPACE ON THIS THREAD TO ANSWER THE PREVIOUS QUESTIONS. This is just something that I have to accept b/c that's the way things are now. I realize that if I am carrying a ton of gold jewelry onto a plane (figuratively, however as an AA Platinum I can carry my weight in gold and usually board w/ no problem), the TSA may or may not want to search my bag. If that's the case, then I quietly ask for a private room, let them search and then move along like a good flier. That's the way it is.

Back to the OP, he seemed concerned, among other things, that FAMs are easily identified. So, in addressing his concern I agree. Am I going to call my Congressman? No. People are paid a lot of money to make these decisions, and what he thinks and what I think really don't matter. Even if they are wrong; even if the whole system is wrong. That's the way it is.

Sam

His offensive anology aside, the contention is inane. Do you really think that just because some guy thinks a policy is incorrect is sufficient justification to contend that FAMS doing their job is in any way analogous to genocide? I liken it to a conscientious objector spitting in the face of a soldier who has come home from war. (Now that's a good analogy) His thoughts on policy are literally immaterial to how or why a FAM does his job. He thinks the FAM program as a whole is a waste of resources, fine....no problem, his opinion. He has, however, publicly accused FAMS of immorality.

If he had merely said that many of the policies imposed upon the FAMS are ill-advised or even downright stupid, he would have had the agreement and support of most FAMS.

--edited cause i'm a goober and can't write good.