TSA or non-TSA Debate
#31


Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
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Another aspect is the national guidance given. Pre-9/11, air crews were trained to cooperate with hijackers and passengers were encouraged to remain passive. The expectation of active resistance to hijackers on planes likely does more to deter them than screening passengers on the ground. My own opinion is that the next 9/11 style attack will occur using either private or cargo jets, so as to remove the wild card of having passengers on board.
#32
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
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I am not trying to be argumentative, but whose fault was it, or what was the proximate cause, of the 9/11 hijackers being able to smuggle their blade cutters and whatever else they used for their plot?
Obviously onboard aircraft security, such as unlocked cockpit doors, had at least "something" to do with the systemic vulnerabilities at that time.
Obviously onboard aircraft security, such as unlocked cockpit doors, had at least "something" to do with the systemic vulnerabilities at that time.
#33




Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SEA, or BOS, or MUC, or other places (probably connecting). "Detroit, Michigan is in the Eastern time zone."
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ID requirements were added after the crash of TWA 800. A common belief is that the airlines had already wanted this to prevent ticket resales, and once they had the opportunity to blame the government for "making them" check IDs they were happy to take it.
#34


Join Date: Dec 2004
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Sure there are other aspects that can be legitimately considered as contributing causes, such as non-hardened cockpit doors, a policy to cooperate with hijackers, etc., but a failure of airport security screening was NOT one of them.
#36


Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,689
ID requirements were added after the crash of TWA 800. A common belief is that the airlines had already wanted this to prevent ticket resales, and once they had the opportunity to blame the government for "making them" check IDs they were happy to take it.
#37
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Should there be passenger screening? I think YES is the clear answer but government employees should not perform that task. TSA should be a regulatory agency only. Screeners should be employees of the airport. Screenings should be limited to actual WEI and not water, baby formula, embossed purses, cupcakes in jars, and all the other non-WEI items TSA has confiscated over the years.
This discussion is just plowing a field already plowed.
This discussion is just plowing a field already plowed.
#38




Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 262
I'd fly happily
I would fly without TSA. What has been permitted for me to take aboard changes with each agent. What needs to be taken out and placed in the bin differs as well.
The nasty expensive nude a scope didn't eliminate pat downs.
Basically I felt just as safe travelling prior to TSA. I agree if must have, should not be federal employees. I think there would be more accounts for their actions.
The nasty expensive nude a scope didn't eliminate pat downs.
Basically I felt just as safe travelling prior to TSA. I agree if must have, should not be federal employees. I think there would be more accounts for their actions.
#39


Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 660
Did you see--plans to privatize security were announced. https://onemileatatime.com/news/trum...t-funding-tsa/
#40


Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,826
Did you see--plans to privatize security were announced. https://onemileatatime.com/news/trum...t-funding-tsa/
#41
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#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
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It starts with the fees the airport authority charges for origination and transit. They don't have to charge the same amount. For example, MUC and FRA charge different airport fees. So in essence they compete with each other. Here airports can charge $4.50, no more, no less.
In a perfect world, LGA, EWR and JFK could charge different amounts and compete with each other, service for price. MUC is more expensive to transit, but most flying LH would rather transfer there than the cheaper FRA. And in most of the world, the airport authorities run security much like in SFO, subject to government-imposed standards, and pay for it with the airport fees.
Comprehensive guide to European airport taxes and fees - Points with a Crew
(This is an old document, but you get the idea).
In a perfect world, LGA, EWR and JFK could charge different amounts and compete with each other, service for price. MUC is more expensive to transit, but most flying LH would rather transfer there than the cheaper FRA. And in most of the world, the airport authorities run security much like in SFO, subject to government-imposed standards, and pay for it with the airport fees.
Comprehensive guide to European airport taxes and fees - Points with a Crew
(This is an old document, but you get the idea).
#45


Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,689
This can have an effect on the security experience. While TSA controls everything starting with the ID checkers, I believe the terminal operator decides how the queues that lead to the ID checkers are set up and how many of the active ID checkers at any given time are assigned to each queue (precheck, CLEAR, priority, general, etc.). A couple years ago I was at LGA Terminal C and was stuck in a nearly hour-long general queue (I was dropping off a UM, and gate passes for UM accompanying adults aren't eligible for precheck). I'm pretty sure that DL had purposely assigned only a single TSA ID checker to the general queue but had assigned two to the CLEAR queue so that CLEAR salespeople could pitch CLEAR signups to folks in the general queue who were desperate to catch their flights (I understand DL gets a commission from CLEAR signups that happen in "their" terminal). I thought that was particularly lousy.

