Community
Wiki Posts
Search

TSA or non-TSA Debate

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 14, 2026 | 8:18 pm
  #31  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,826
Originally Posted by MP2086
Another aspect is the national guidance given. Pre-9/11, air crews were trained to cooperate with hijackers and passengers were encouraged to remain passive. The expectation of active resistance to hijackers on planes likely does more to deter them than screening passengers on the ground. My own opinion is that the next 9/11 style attack will occur using either private or cargo jets, so as to remove the wild card of having passengers on board.
Originally Posted by Rare
Box cutters, pocket knives, and many other things were allowed on planes before 9/11, so no smuggling needed.
Doors were locked during flight, but not "hardened" and therefore potentially easy to breach (which the plotters didnt accomplish but the pax on 77(?) did over PA). But the other answers are more to the point, they were able to take advantage of social engineering to use what were considered benign and acceptable tools as weapons to take control.

SPN Lifer likes this.
Section 107 is offline  
Old Mar 15, 2026 | 10:44 am
  #32  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
I am not trying to be argumentative, but whose fault was it, or what was the proximate cause, of the 9/11 hijackers being able to smuggle their blade cutters and whatever else they used for their plot?

Obviously onboard aircraft security, such as unlocked cockpit doors, had at least "something" to do with the systemic vulnerabilities at that time.
If memory serves well knives were not prohibited pre-9/11. So the regulatory failure was responsible for what happen. The same regulator now in charge of security, federal government.
Spiff and SPN Lifer like this.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Mar 15, 2026 | 3:47 pm
  #33  
10 Countries Visited
1M
All eyes on you!
25 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SEA, or BOS, or MUC, or other places (probably connecting). "Detroit, Michigan is in the Eastern time zone."
Programs: DL GM/1MM, NEXUS/GE, CLEAR, Bonvoy Platinum, Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,211
ID requirements were added after the crash of TWA 800. A common belief is that the airlines had already wanted this to prevent ticket resales, and once they had the opportunity to blame the government for "making them" check IDs they were happy to take it.
themicah likes this.
CKDGM is offline  
Old Mar 16, 2026 | 10:53 am
  #34  
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Under the Cone of Silence
Programs: UA Gold; AA Dirt; HH Diamond; National Emerald; CONTROL SecretAgent Platinum; KAOS EvilFlyer Gold
Posts: 1,679
Originally Posted by SPN Lifer
I am not trying to be argumentative, but whose fault was it, or what was the proximate cause, of the 9/11 hijackers being able to smuggle their blade cutters and whatever else they used for their plot?
There was no "smuggling" involved. The blades were permitted by regulation to be allowed to be taken onboard, they were not prohibited. They could have been openly dropped into a tray that went though a scanner and nothing would have happened. Unfortunately it is common in media articles to incorrectly/falsely state that the items were "smuggled" aboard, thus perpetuating the lie.

Sure there are other aspects that can be legitimately considered as contributing causes, such as non-hardened cockpit doors, a policy to cooperate with hijackers, etc., but a failure of airport security screening was NOT one of them.
Spiff, SPN Lifer and Section 107 like this.
Maxwell Smart is offline  
Old Mar 18, 2026 | 2:37 pm
  #35  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
Without pay I would expect fewer and fewer TSA screeners will be able to report for unpaid work so those flying may get the choice to fly without adequate security or not fly soon.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Mar 18, 2026 | 4:39 pm
  #36  
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,689
Originally Posted by CKDGM
ID requirements were added after the crash of TWA 800. A common belief is that the airlines had already wanted this to prevent ticket resales, and once they had the opportunity to blame the government for "making them" check IDs they were happy to take it.
Yes, 1996. The ID check was not at the security checkpoint but at the check-in counter, where most passengers would exchange a paper ticket (the first e-tickets rolled out in 1994 or 1995, but the vast majority of tickets were still paper in 1996) for a paper boarding pass and need to show ID as part of that process.
SPN Lifer likes this.
themicah is offline  
Old Mar 23, 2026 | 3:28 pm
  #37  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Should there be passenger screening? I think YES is the clear answer but government employees should not perform that task. TSA should be a regulatory agency only. Screeners should be employees of the airport. Screenings should be limited to actual WEI and not water, baby formula, embossed purses, cupcakes in jars, and all the other non-WEI items TSA has confiscated over the years.

This discussion is just plowing a field already plowed.
That's the way it was pre-9/11 paranoia. Security policy and procedures were set by the FAA Office of Civil Aviation Security.
Spiff likes this.
FliesWay2Much is offline  
Old Mar 23, 2026 | 3:48 pm
  #38  
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
25 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 262
I'd fly happily

I would fly without TSA. What has been permitted for me to take aboard changes with each agent. What needs to be taken out and placed in the bin differs as well.

The nasty expensive nude a scope didn't eliminate pat downs.

Basically I felt just as safe travelling prior to TSA. I agree if must have, should not be federal employees. I think there would be more accounts for their actions.
Spiff likes this.
natalie is offline  
Old Apr 3, 2026 | 4:41 pm
  #39  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 660
Did you see--plans to privatize security were announced. https://onemileatatime.com/news/trum...t-funding-tsa/
guflyer is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2026 | 8:50 am
  #40  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,826
Originally Posted by guflyer
Did you see--plans to privatize security were announced. https://onemileatatime.com/news/trum...t-funding-tsa/
It should be put back onto the airlines, they have the most vested interest in being secure AND cost effective.
Spiff and SPN Lifer like this.
Section 107 is offline  
Old Apr 4, 2026 | 12:51 pm
  #41  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
20 Countries Visited
500k
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
Originally Posted by Section 107
It should be put back onto the airlines, they have the most vested interest in being secure AND cost effective.
Partnership between the airlines and the airports with airports being the lead authority. TSA should publish security standards and have inspection teams verifying compliance. Red Teams could surveil actual screener performance and compliance with published guidelines.
SPN Lifer likes this.
Boggie Dog is offline  
Old Apr 5, 2026 | 7:03 pm
  #42  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
Perhaps take lessons from how the rest of the world does security?
Ari is offline  
Old Apr 6, 2026 | 6:38 am
  #43  
All eyes on you!
15 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,826
Originally Posted by Ari
Perhaps take lessons from how the rest of the world does security?
how do they do it?
Section 107 is offline  
Old Apr 6, 2026 | 11:50 am
  #44  
Ari
FlyerTalk Evangelist
10 Countries Visited
20 Countries Visited
30 Countries Visited
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 11,678
Originally Posted by Section 107
how do they do it?
It starts with the fees the airport authority charges for origination and transit. They don't have to charge the same amount. For example, MUC and FRA charge different airport fees. So in essence they compete with each other. Here airports can charge $4.50, no more, no less.

In a perfect world, LGA, EWR and JFK could charge different amounts and compete with each other, service for price. MUC is more expensive to transit, but most flying LH would rather transfer there than the cheaper FRA. And in most of the world, the airport authorities run security much like in SFO, subject to government-imposed standards, and pay for it with the airport fees.

Comprehensive guide to European airport taxes and fees - Points with a Crew
(This is an old document, but you get the idea).
Section 107 likes this.
Ari is offline  
Old Apr 8, 2026 | 9:50 am
  #45  
All eyes on you!
20 Years on Site
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 8,689
Originally Posted by Ari
In a perfect world, LGA, EWR and JFK could charge different amounts and compete with each other, service for price.
Even though LGA, EWR, JFK, SWF and TEB are all owned by the Port Authority of NY/NJ and TSA runs security at all of them, some of their individual terminals are operated independently and offer considerably different experiences. Vantage Group runs LGA Terminal B and JFK T7 and will run the forthcoming JFK T1 and T6. A company called JFKIAT runs JFK T4. The Munich Airport Group operates EWR Terminal A. Individual airlines run JFK T5 (B6) and T8 (AA), LGA Terminal C (DL), and EWR Terminal C (UA).

This can have an effect on the security experience. While TSA controls everything starting with the ID checkers, I believe the terminal operator decides how the queues that lead to the ID checkers are set up and how many of the active ID checkers at any given time are assigned to each queue (precheck, CLEAR, priority, general, etc.). A couple years ago I was at LGA Terminal C and was stuck in a nearly hour-long general queue (I was dropping off a UM, and gate passes for UM accompanying adults aren't eligible for precheck). I'm pretty sure that DL had purposely assigned only a single TSA ID checker to the general queue but had assigned two to the CLEAR queue so that CLEAR salespeople could pitch CLEAR signups to folks in the general queue who were desperate to catch their flights (I understand DL gets a commission from CLEAR signups that happen in "their" terminal). I thought that was particularly lousy.
themicah is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.