TSA blog comments disabled/deleted
Jun 2, 2020, 12:00 pm
#61
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,507
youse guys are speaking past each other. The main principle at work here is actually "practice" rather than policy. The agency has policies of "follow the SOPs" or "exhibit integrity, do not lie" - but the agency consistently, over years, has demonstrated a practice of condoning behavior that is in contravention of policy by not discipling such bad behavior.
I believe there are news stories of TSA employees who where shown to have, um, misremembered in court proceedings facts they claim to have witnessed that were shown via video to be entirely fabricated and yet that employee not only was not disciplined but was subsequently promoted.
In the great scheme of things in respect to the number of interactions TSA has there might an almost infinitesimal number of bad situations and employees but you know how the saying goes - win a Nobel Peace prize, a few citizen of the year awards and get the key to the city, but get caught just one time with the sheep and it was all for naught....
I believe there are news stories of TSA employees who where shown to have, um, misremembered in court proceedings facts they claim to have witnessed that were shown via video to be entirely fabricated and yet that employee not only was not disciplined but was subsequently promoted.
In the great scheme of things in respect to the number of interactions TSA has there might an almost infinitesimal number of bad situations and employees but you know how the saying goes - win a Nobel Peace prize, a few citizen of the year awards and get the key to the city, but get caught just one time with the sheep and it was all for naught....
Jun 2, 2020, 2:41 pm
#62
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
This is a faulty comparison. The fact that the information in posts is different than others, and may be different or incorrect has absolutely zero to do with the over/under-utilization of social media.
This is not true for all of us. I prefer we take it on the chin when something goes wrong, and that we address things in a more public manner. I would much rather be dressed down for someone that does the wrong thing in one of our uniforms, then come up with a constructive way to address the situation.
Empowering the audience is the best way to effectively communicate with the audience. We all need information, and when something happens, we should be the ones putting out what happened, our part in it, and what is happening as we move through the situation. One of our most effective and well performed responses was to the Mommy Blogger ages ago. She made false allegations, and the organization brought forward evidence refuting her claims. They also did not attack the passenger, they simply explained the situation and provided corroborating evidence. That is how it should work, it should work kind of the same way when we have an employee do something wrong. We can publish the basics without naming someone, and I think that we should do more of that.
This is not true for all of us. I prefer we take it on the chin when something goes wrong, and that we address things in a more public manner. I would much rather be dressed down for someone that does the wrong thing in one of our uniforms, then come up with a constructive way to address the situation.
Empowering the audience is the best way to effectively communicate with the audience. We all need information, and when something happens, we should be the ones putting out what happened, our part in it, and what is happening as we move through the situation. One of our most effective and well performed responses was to the Mommy Blogger ages ago. She made false allegations, and the organization brought forward evidence refuting her claims. They also did not attack the passenger, they simply explained the situation and provided corroborating evidence. That is how it should work, it should work kind of the same way when we have an employee do something wrong. We can publish the basics without naming someone, and I think that we should do more of that.
The TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. Given that, the TSA cannot be said to underuse social media because it should not use social media at all in the way that it does. Anything above zero use is overuse.
Jun 2, 2020, 4:01 pm
#63
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,332
Many people keep trying to assign malice where none is intended - people make mistakes, people misunderstand, and sometimes people do things to be mean. The vast majority of incidents I have seen, read about and heard about can typically be chalked up to the first 2, which is normal behavior that has an impact on all of us throughout our lives. When it is the 3rd case, and is rightly being identified as malice, then it requires a completely different form of address, with punitive actions as a part of it. I can teach people the correct process, and forgive someone for making a mistake, I can not teach or forgive grown people making purposefully hurtful decisions - that behavior needs to be removed, as it goes to character.
Whether the agency's policies are abusive through malice or stupidity is completely irrelevant - what matters is that they are abusive.
youse guys are speaking past each other. The main principle at work here is actually "practice" rather than policy. The agency has policies of "follow the SOPs" or "exhibit integrity, do not lie" - but the agency consistently, over years, has demonstrated a practice of condoning behavior that is in contravention of policy by not discipling such bad behavior.
I believe there are news stories of TSA employees who where shown to have, um, misremembered in court proceedings facts they claim to have witnessed that were shown via video to be entirely fabricated and yet that employee not only was not disciplined but was subsequently promoted.
In the great scheme of things in respect to the number of interactions TSA has there might an almost infinitesimal number of bad situations and employees but you know how the saying goes - win a Nobel Peace prize, a few citizen of the year awards and get the key to the city, but get caught just one time with the sheep and it was all for naught....
I believe there are news stories of TSA employees who where shown to have, um, misremembered in court proceedings facts they claim to have witnessed that were shown via video to be entirely fabricated and yet that employee not only was not disciplined but was subsequently promoted.
In the great scheme of things in respect to the number of interactions TSA has there might an almost infinitesimal number of bad situations and employees but you know how the saying goes - win a Nobel Peace prize, a few citizen of the year awards and get the key to the city, but get caught just one time with the sheep and it was all for naught....
Anyway, you've actually made the point I was trying to make, but more eloquently - whatever the common practice is, THAT's the policy, no matter what they say, write, or publish.
There are a multitude of jokes I could make involving TSA and sheep but I'll just say, they've been caught in compromising positions more times than I can remember, and keep drunkenly staggering from one situation to the next, virtually unaffected by their previous misdeeds. I don't know whether they're the Jamm or Dexhart of the federal government, but they're definitely way out there.
Jun 2, 2020, 4:19 pm
#64
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This is nonsense. First, your attempt to mischaracterize what happened is laughably transparent. The information wasn't "different than others;" it was dishonest. It wasn't "different or incorrect," it was a nonsensical attempt to smear a passenger and shield the TSA from well-deserved blame. The TSA hired a clerk who, by all appearances, made a false complaint to a police officer and then committed perjury in court. Long after the case was dismissed and the passenger sued the clerk the TSA blog told a dishonest story about the passengers "arrest," scrupulously avoiding admitting that its clerk committed perjury, the passenger was acquitted, and the passenger had just sued the clerk.
The TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. Given that, the TSA cannot be said to underuse social media because it should not use social media at all in the way that it does. Anything above zero use is overuse.
The TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. Given that, the TSA cannot be said to underuse social media because it should not use social media at all in the way that it does. Anything above zero use is overuse.
Jun 3, 2020, 5:42 am
#65
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
Your assertion that Official Policy sanctions and even encourages harassment, and intimidation is simply wrong. I have been through every single MD, OD, Regulation and SOP we have, and not a single one encourages harassment or intimidation - quite the opposite, it puts forward the expectation of professionalism, and courtesy to the people coming through the areas of responsibility. If something like harassment, or intimidation is occurring, then it is wrong, and I have publicly stated that since I started posting on TSA threads in 2007. If an individual does something outside of policy, then the individual is at fault, and TSA should respond with proper discipline (and in the case of criminal activity, they should follow up with the LEOs handling the case). Whether that always happens or not, I am not certain, but I can tell you I have seen it happen quite often during my tenure here. The flip side of the equation, is due process. I always refuse to take sides (in most cases, once in a while I take a side if the activity is particularly egregious) until the investigation and adjudication is completed. What is posted in the press, is not always the truth, it is also simply wrong sometimes because they lack all of the information. The same goes for comments here, when someone posts what happened, it is just there viewpoint and experience. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that there are always 3 sides to a story - yours, mine and the truth. Just because a story published by TSA is incorrect or does not fit your opinion of something, does not mean that they are lying or anything nefarious. Many times I see things here chalked up to malice, when it is actually a mistake or a lack of information, or even changing circumstances.
The written TSA procedures laying out rules that the TSA clerks are supposed to follow are a curtain behind which the TSA hides the reality - a curtain made of plastic wrap. The clerks consistently fail to follow the rules or even to know the rules, refuse to listen when passengers point out the rules to them, deliberately delay passengers in retaliation for being asked to follow the rules, make false police complaints, and commit perjury. The written TSA procedures do not encourage any of that, but it happens all the times and the TSA clerks are not fired for their consistent dishonesty and abuse.
No doubt the TSA's written procedures for the use of social media do not encourage lying, but TSA social media has been a consistent source of lies and little if any useful information.
The TSA blog's false characterization of the Roger Vanderklok travesty was an act of malice, it was not the result of a mistake or a lack of information or changing circumstances.
The TSA doesn't fire clerks for lying or for abusing passengers; that fact outweighs all the paper SOP manuals in all the world.
Jun 3, 2020, 7:44 am
#66
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
This is nonsense. First, your attempt to mischaracterize what happened is laughably transparent. The information wasn't "different than others;" it was dishonest. It wasn't "different or incorrect," it was a nonsensical attempt to smear a passenger and shield the TSA from well-deserved blame. The TSA hired a clerk who, by all appearances, made a false complaint to a police officer and then committed perjury in court. Long after the case was dismissed and the passenger sued the clerk the TSA blog told a dishonest story about the passengers "arrest," scrupulously avoiding admitting that its clerk committed perjury, the passenger was acquitted, and the passenger had just sued the clerk.
The TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. Given that, the TSA cannot be said to underuse social media because it should not use social media at all in the way that it does. Anything above zero use is overuse.
The TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. Given that, the TSA cannot be said to underuse social media because it should not use social media at all in the way that it does. Anything above zero use is overuse.
I am merely giving my opinions on the subject. You may disagree with those opinions all you like, but stating that the agency has "never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest" is demonstrably false. TSA posts hundreds if not thousands of things on social media daily, and to state that all of it is dishonest, is either a generalization, or an attempt to do the same thing that you are stating the organization is doing.
Jun 3, 2020, 10:59 am
#67
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
The habitual corruption of TSA was clearly demonstrated by writings published on the TSA blog, especially in the way submitted comments were rejected while fully compliant with TSA's bogus blog comment rules. Of course comments that attacked other readers or that supported TSA didn't seem to receive the same scrutiny. The removal of all comments and eliminating the ability to comment just seals the deal in my book. I wasn't expecting TSA's clear corruption to be defended.
Jun 3, 2020, 5:25 pm
#68
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: Delta TDK(or care)WIA, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,869
I stand by my initial statement - difference in information on certain subjects (whether it is a willful attempt to attack someone, or whether it is a mistake or a lack of information) has zero to do with the under/over utilization of social media. One event that has different sides on an issue, also does not mean that either of the posters are being dishonest. I am unaware of the end result of the incident we are discussing - I was not/am not privy to all of the information that HQ had when they made the post - Therefore, I can not say that the post was or was not dishonest. I can say (having worked with the social media team) that I have never heard anyone indicate that they were trying to do anything other than post information for the public. None of the folks I have interacted with have even hinted that they were trying to mislead, blame, or otherwise be dishonest, about anything. Many times, members of the social media team reach out to other groups/departments/friends/family to understand public opinion better, and write postings so that the broadest audience gets the information as neutrally as possible.
I am merely giving my opinions on the subject. You may disagree with those opinions all you like, but stating that the agency has "never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest" is demonstrably false. TSA posts hundreds if not thousands of things on social media daily, and to state that all of it is dishonest, is either a generalization, or an attempt to do the same thing that you are stating the organization is doing.
I am merely giving my opinions on the subject. You may disagree with those opinions all you like, but stating that the agency has "never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest" is demonstrably false. TSA posts hundreds if not thousands of things on social media daily, and to state that all of it is dishonest, is either a generalization, or an attempt to do the same thing that you are stating the organization is doing.
The abuse of Mr. Vanderklok and the TSA blog's dishonest reporting of it is not "difference in information on certain subjects" and is not "one event that has different sides on an issue."
Mr. Vanderklok's case was tried, and he was acquitted, in 2013, and the judge acquitted Mr. Vanderklok shortly after the TSA clerk's testimony, without the defense even getting a chance to cross-examine the clerk. By all appearances the TSA clerk committed perjury.
Two years later, after Mr. Vanderklok sued the TSA clerk, the TSA blog put up a post talking about Mr. Vanderklok's "arrest," not mentioning that he had been acquitted two years before, not mentioning that he had been imprisoned based on the false account of a TSA clerk who went on to give false testimony before a judge.
This has everything to do with the question of whether or not the TSA underuses, because the TSA should not use social media at all in the way they consistently use it.
I did speak imprecisely when I said the TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. What I meant, but perhaps did not make clear, is that the TSA has never used any social media mechanism (the blog, Twitter, Instagram, whatever) except in a consistently dishonest way. Not every single word or punctuation mark posted by the TSA is dishonest, but the greatest bulk of the TSA's social media postings are meaningless trivialities, pretending the TSA clerks perform their jobs properly and attentively, pretending that there is a terrorist menace against which the TSA is a bulwark, dishonestly disparaging critics of the TSA and TSA clerks, and smearing passengers. None of that is of any value and there is no need for more of it.
Last edited by TWA884; Jun 7, 2020 at 12:57 pm Reason: FT Rule 12.2: Personal Exchange
Jun 7, 2020, 7:41 am
#69
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
<redacted by moderator>
The abuse of Mr. Vanderklok and the TSA blog's dishonest reporting of it is not "difference in information on certain subjects" and is not "one event that has different sides on an issue."
Mr. Vanderklok's case was tried, and he was acquitted, in 2013, and the judge acquitted Mr. Vanderklok shortly after the TSA clerk's testimony, without the defense even getting a chance to cross-examine the clerk. By all appearances the TSA clerk committed perjury.
Two years later, after Mr. Vanderklok sued the TSA clerk, the TSA blog put up a post talking about Mr. Vanderklok's "arrest," not mentioning that he had been acquitted two years before, not mentioning that he had been imprisoned based on the false account of a TSA clerk who went on to give false testimony before a judge.
This has everything to do with the question of whether or not the TSA underuses, because the TSA should not use social media at all in the way they consistently use it.
I did speak imprecisely when I said the TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. What I meant, but perhaps did not make clear, is that the TSA has never used any social media mechanism (the blog, Twitter, Instagram, whatever) except in a consistently dishonest way. Not every single word or punctuation mark posted by the TSA is dishonest, but the greatest bulk of the TSA's social media postings are meaningless trivialities, pretending the TSA clerks perform their jobs properly and attentively, pretending that there is a terrorist menace against which the TSA is a bulwark, dishonestly disparaging critics of the TSA and TSA clerks, and smearing passengers. None of that is of any value and there is no need for more of it.
The abuse of Mr. Vanderklok and the TSA blog's dishonest reporting of it is not "difference in information on certain subjects" and is not "one event that has different sides on an issue."
Mr. Vanderklok's case was tried, and he was acquitted, in 2013, and the judge acquitted Mr. Vanderklok shortly after the TSA clerk's testimony, without the defense even getting a chance to cross-examine the clerk. By all appearances the TSA clerk committed perjury.
Two years later, after Mr. Vanderklok sued the TSA clerk, the TSA blog put up a post talking about Mr. Vanderklok's "arrest," not mentioning that he had been acquitted two years before, not mentioning that he had been imprisoned based on the false account of a TSA clerk who went on to give false testimony before a judge.
This has everything to do with the question of whether or not the TSA underuses, because the TSA should not use social media at all in the way they consistently use it.
I did speak imprecisely when I said the TSA has never used social media in a way that has not been consistently dishonest. What I meant, but perhaps did not make clear, is that the TSA has never used any social media mechanism (the blog, Twitter, Instagram, whatever) except in a consistently dishonest way. Not every single word or punctuation mark posted by the TSA is dishonest, but the greatest bulk of the TSA's social media postings are meaningless trivialities, pretending the TSA clerks perform their jobs properly and attentively, pretending that there is a terrorist menace against which the TSA is a bulwark, dishonestly disparaging critics of the TSA and TSA clerks, and smearing passengers. None of that is of any value and there is no need for more of it.
TSA was taking heat at the time about not having a reason to engage the individual and perform additional screening measures, soooo, they wrote a piece addressing that specific part of the event. If I had an item like that come through that passenger would experience a fairly noticeable delay - they also would get to have conversations with our Bomb guys if they were there. As a TSO, that combination of items is no Bueno, it creates a great deal of tension - and TSA was working to convey that message outside of the court cases and suits and everything else that went on with this case. So, there is no attempt to mischaracterize anything, it has been a statement of differing goals and targets. As for the situation with the passenger and the individuals involved in this past what the SOP said to do, I have no comment. I do not know what was said, and if a passenger makes a statement about a bomb, even in jest, it also creates tension.
I will freely admit that the stories told by the 2 individuals are completely different, and that by all appearances, the TSO involved was not as truthful as he should have been. At the very least (according to press releases) the TSO embellished the events, at worst, willfully exaggerated to help make his case. From this point of view, it makes no difference whether he was exaggerating, or lying, both are equally wrong in terms of the result. The only x-factor in terms of response, is whether the passenger made a comment about a bomb, that takes a bag check and time with the bomb guys and turns it into a bag check, time with our bomb guys, and time with the local LEOs as well. I will not defend the TSO in this case, the lack of professionalism, and candor exhibited here is enough for me to be ok with removal 5 minutes after the event.
As for cases, they all appear to have been settled without any kind of relief for the passenger. The attempt to go after the LEOs was never going to go much of anywhere because they were operating on the information given to them by the TSO. I thought the suit against the TSO had a chance to get something (especially after the 3rds ruling that he could be sued), but sadly it appears not. I was looking forward to the litigation. I, like most people, disavow anyone that violates SOP, or shows a lack of professionalism and candor - that is completely unacceptable.
Your personal opinions not withstanding, thousands of TSOs go about their duties day in and day out in a professional and courteous manner, working to prevent bad things from getting on planes, and helping passengers get through the checkpoints. So I will again disagree with you on the under/over-utilization of social media. TSA social media helps thousands of people every day (disclaimer - since the number are as much as 95% lower than normal, that number is also substantially lower at the moment) with minor, and major issues. It is consistently messaging directly with passengers in real time, it distributes press releases in real time, it also does informational posts on current events sometimes (I wish we did a lot more of this, but I am not a head shed member). The vast majority of TSAs social media is done with the sole intention of making a passenger or groups of passengers travels more easy, or they are dedicated to communicating changes that are coming for the traveling public. Blanket statements dilute the point you are trying to make, and take away from the discussion. TSA consistently uses social media in an honest and direct way (literally hundreds if not thousands of times a day).
Last edited by gsoltso; Jun 8, 2020 at 7:01 am Reason: adjust wording
Jun 7, 2020, 12:56 pm
#70
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Moderator's Note: Personal Exchanges
Folks,
Please keep in mind FlyerTalk Rule 12.2 when posting in this forum and particularly in this thread:
Avoid Getting Personal
The next member to get personal with another member will have their posting privileges suspended for a minimum of seven days and possibly longer or even permanently.
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TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Please keep in mind FlyerTalk Rule 12.2 when posting in this forum and particularly in this thread:
Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
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FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.
Please consider this to be your one and only warning!
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator