Passenger with broken wrist denied boarding due to "explosive residue"
Feb 13, 2018, 3:58 pm
#16
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Does anyone have a better option for screening the cast once it alarms? Unwrapping it is a bad idea, but if it alarms the (notoriously over-inclusive ETD machine), what can the screeners do to rule out the presence of explosives? I don't like the conclusion of this story better than anyone who has posted in this thread, but I'm not sure I have a better solution that wouldn't allow a cast made of explosives to fly.
I find it hard to believe you couldn't couple the ability to detect certain substances with the ability to accurate estimate sufficiently dangerous masses of it.
Feb 13, 2018, 4:16 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
"Can anyone speak to the quantitative abilities of these screening devices? Can they detect "magnitudes" of anything? Or is it just detected / not detected?"
Great question. I've done work with MALDI-TOF and PCR and these techniques (Nobel prize stuff) can detect just one molecule. I am still annoyed after being harassed over invisible "heroin residue" in Australia and was asking the same question.
Great question. I've done work with MALDI-TOF and PCR and these techniques (Nobel prize stuff) can detect just one molecule. I am still annoyed after being harassed over invisible "heroin residue" in Australia and was asking the same question.
Feb 14, 2018, 10:14 am
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
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Feb 14, 2018, 10:31 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Is this some weird new way to be gender neutral? Or did the bio writer just not know the person's gender. odd and clumsy....
Feb 14, 2018, 11:43 am
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
"Dr.lieutenant Colonel Anne B. Alerding"
It should be Lieutenant Colonel Anne B. Alerding, M.D."I12Biology, virginia Military Institute"
Makes one wonder if this is a piece of misinformation from the Russians!
Feb 14, 2018, 1:43 pm
#21
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,647
Faculty and Staff
The bio page linked from the departmental directory page is written much better.
Lieutenant Colonel Anne B. Alerding. Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Ph.D. - Pennsylvania State University
Specialty: Plant Biology
301F Maury-Brooke Hall
Associate Professor
Ph.D. - Pennsylvania State University
Specialty: Plant Biology
301F Maury-Brooke Hall
Feb 14, 2018, 8:38 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,096
Does anyone have a better option for screening the cast once it alarms? Unwrapping it is a bad idea, but if it alarms the (notoriously over-inclusive ETD machine), what can the screeners do to rule out the presence of explosives? I don't like the conclusion of this story better than anyone who has posted in this thread, but I'm not sure I have a better solution that wouldn't allow a cast made of explosives to fly.
This is not a situation where the passenger has to prove they are innocent. This is a situation where the screeners have to show the passenger *is* carrying actual explosives. Explosive residue is not a threat in and of itself.
Feb 15, 2018, 8:56 am
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
What can they do? Recognise that the uncalibrated and unmaintained TSA machines don't test for "explosives", they test for nitrate and phosphate concentrations. They could assess the totality of facts. They could check easily for any sign of equipment or materials that could be a detonator. They could be properly trained and properly equipped to actual conduct a search.
This is not a situation where the passenger has to prove they are innocent. This is a situation where the screeners have to show the passenger *is* carrying actual explosives. Explosive residue is not a threat in and of itself.
This is not a situation where the passenger has to prove they are innocent. This is a situation where the screeners have to show the passenger *is* carrying actual explosives. Explosive residue is not a threat in and of itself.
Feb 15, 2018, 9:23 am
#24
Join Date: Jun 2010
Programs: DL, AA
Posts: 34
...
The burden of proof must be on TSA to prove that the item is a threat not on the passenger to prove that their person/property is not a threat. ETD alarm is clearly not probable cause for an arrest given the false positive rate. Banning a passenger based on an ETD alarm and nothing else sounds like a traffic cop charging a person with DUI based on smelling alcohol in a parked car with no breath test, blood test, impaired driving, or other evidence of DUI.
...
The burden of proof must be on TSA to prove that the item is a threat not on the passenger to prove that their person/property is not a threat. ETD alarm is clearly not probable cause for an arrest given the false positive rate. Banning a passenger based on an ETD alarm and nothing else sounds like a traffic cop charging a person with DUI based on smelling alcohol in a parked car with no breath test, blood test, impaired driving, or other evidence of DUI.
...
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
Feb 15, 2018, 9:48 am
#25
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 574
Lots of people are arrested for drunk driving while in parked cars. The argument is that if you have access to keys, you could drive the vehicle while drunk.
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
Well, DUI laws are the most Unconstitutional laws I can think of.. Violations of the 4th and 5th and even 6th Amendments (face your accuser/BAC). In fact, you don't have to be drunk OR driving to get a drunk driving conviction these days. So if that is their model it's no wonder TSA is so out of touch with normal "security" measures, and so unpopular..
Feb 15, 2018, 10:30 am
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Lots of people are arrested for drunk driving while in parked cars. The argument is that if you have access to keys, you could drive the vehicle while drunk.
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
Feb 15, 2018, 2:40 pm
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,126
The issue is that TSA's ETD machines don't detect just explosives and all ETD alarms to my knowledge have been false alarms. Bottom line, TSA is conducting a sceening test that is completely unsuitable for passenger screening.
Feb 16, 2018, 7:37 pm
#28
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What annoys me the most is the drivel from the TSA Spokeshole in which they state that some people with new casts will simply not be allowed to fly. Where is the outrage over a statement such as this??? If Congress, the WH and the main stream media would put even 10% of the effort they go through to bash or praise Trump, this wouldn't be a problem. A lot of other TSA travesties wouldn't be problems, either.
Feb 16, 2018, 8:22 pm
#29
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,415
Lots of people are arrested for drunk driving while in parked cars. The argument is that if you have access to keys, you could drive the vehicle while drunk.
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
https://www.georgiacriminaldefense.c...st/parked-car/
There should be two exceptions, though:
Not in a bar parking lot and not if the engine is cold.
There have been actual explosive detections. No threat, though--just bags that were handled by people who handle explosives.
Last edited by TWA884; Feb 16, 2018 at 8:59 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function
Feb 16, 2018, 9:06 pm
#30
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Frensham, Lincolnshire
Programs: RFC
Posts: 5,096
Well, to be fair, most terrorism in the US *is* committed by white people, so +1 to TSA for at least getting the race right?