Boggie Dog

Perhaps it's just me but I can't tell from that video the temperament of any person involved. Tone of voice, facial expression or nothing else of importance is discernable.

I don't think anyone can say what triggered the push back by the young lady.

Statman

If Gisele Bundchen took a swing at an officer after pushing said officer for a few minutes, I have no doubt that she would have been taken down like this woman.

theddo

What triggered the push back isn't relevant. "The young lady" is a 19 year old, she is old enough to vote, and old enough to take responsibility for her actions. I don't know what she said - since there wasn't audio - but she isn't obviously altered in that event.

The temperament doesn't matter, you aren't allowed to punch cops because you disagree with their attitude.

This was your previous comment:

The video clearly shows there isn't any basis for your comment. <deleted by moderator>

Boggie Dog

I don't think I'm wrong in my assessment so I have nothing to apologize for.

rickg523

I think trying to argue reasonable action on the part of TSA agents on the basis of that video to a bunch of people who themselves watch the TSA front line in action on a daily basis is about as futile as citing "Reefer Madness" type behavior as an argument against marijuana use to people who have actually used marijuana themselves. It's a laughable exercise in futility.
In my view, TSA front line employees act the way they do because they are repeatedly told that if they let a terrorist through and something happens they will be held totally responsible, they will lose their jobs, will likely be accused of dereliction or malfeasance, and will almost certainly be named as responsible for the tragedy in the media and have their face plastered all over the place as the person who LET THE TERRORIST THROUGH.
It's not a nuanced message, but we're talking about an essentially low-wage work force, paid like clerks, so I would guess managers employ the sledgehammer approach to enforce the difference between this job and filing in an office or being a stock clerk at Sam's Club. And that message informs their on the job behavior. You will get more heat for being "lax" than being ridiculously "officious."
This is not an excuse for the well-known TSA penchant for thinking their job requires acting like a prison guard. But I consider it a possible reason. And one that could be improved with better management and managers.

GUWonder

Apparently the law may not agree with you. Prosecutors don't generally decide to throw away charges against people caught on video engaging in what may be viewed as a form of assault agains uniformed law enforcement officers. In the US, it's not rare for laws against many crimes to have a mens rea requirement for a crime to have been committed. This means that a person with limited mental capacity may not be able to take responsibility for their actions.

theddo

Watching the video I see very little interaction with the TSA and it appears as if she's actually being detained, and then assaults, the Memphis PD and the TSA stays away.

How the TSA acted in any other situation isn't relevant to how the police department acted in this one.

The girl having cancer, being treated for cancer, being 19 or having developmental difficulties isn't relevant to her assaulting a police officer, multiple times, and resisting when arrested.

Considering that if she hadn't been a 19 year old white woman she wouldn't have as happy an ending as she did, and the police wouldn't simply push her to the floor and wait for her to cool down while another officer helped handcuff her.

Boggie Dog

Absolutely nothing suggests that the officers in the video would have acted differently had the person been a different race or sex.

rickg523

Well, what I was getting at was that, honestly, many people feel TSA have used up their "benefit of the doubt" card. They have exhibited so many egregious violations of common sense and treated so many flyers without a scintilla of common courtesy, that in a case like this, whether deserved or not, they are going to be viewed....well, exactly the way many flyers believe TSA views THEM...as suspects.

Loren Pechtel

I think that's what happened here--they dropped the charges when they realized her limited mental capacity.

WillCAD

{Edited to add: I'm going by the video on the USAToday story here: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ight/88590390/ }

At 2:14 in the video, the cop gestures with his right hand as if to indicate "go over there" or "something is over there." The girl subtly shakes her head in a "no" gesture at this, and at 2:15, he steps in very close to the girl and grabs her upper right arm with his left hand. To me it also appears that he's trying to gently shove her in the same direction he had gestured, as if to force her to move. In reaction to this, the girl flinches away and attempts to gain some distance, but the cop grabs both of her arms with his hands and the struggle ensues.

The questions I have about this:

1) Had the cop ordered her to go somewhere and she refused?
2) Was the cop arresting or detaining her as part of a criminal investigation?
3) Exactly why did the cop lay his hands on her at all?

The fact that the charges against her were dropped could have indicated one of three things:
* The prosecutor may have reviewed the situation and realized that the cop's actions in laying hands on her were unjustified
* The prosecutor may not have wanted to get in front of a jury and paint a 19 year old cancer patient with cognitive difficulties as a danger to a cop who outweighed her by about 20 pounds of pure muscle, even if the cops actions were entirely justified
* The girl's cognitive issues may have made her non-responsible, legally speaking, for her actions

Another thing I've noticed, though; the mother's claims that she was kept far away from her daughter and not allowed to explain her daughter's condition to the TSA and police are hogwash. She was literally within arm's reach of the daughter throughout the entire incident, except from 0:26 to 0:43 when the daughter goes to the belt to retreiver her belongings while the mother sits on a bench. In addition, the mother, daughter, cop, and a suited man whom I assume was a TSM, spend the time from 0:43 to 2:14 holding an extended 4-way conversation.

The mother can be seen clearly speaking to the cop, to the TSM, and to the daughter, and the TSM appears to speak to the daughter as well (his back is turned to the camera but his left arm gesticulates as many people do when they're speaking).

So she was not separated from her daughter by TSA or the PD until the struggle ensues, at which time she is physically removed by the second cop (using minimal and appropriate force, IMHO) to prevent her from joining in the fight. And she had an extended 1:31 conversation in which she could have (and probably did) explain her daughter's condition to the cop and TSM.

I don't know how bad the daughter's cognitive issues are, but this case does not appear to be as cut and dried as many people think. Neither side seems to be 100% at fault or 100% without fault to me, based on the video, but I am leaning toward saying that the majority of the fault goes to the mother and daughter, rather than the PD, and I put pretty much zero blame on TSA in this situation (there's a switch!)

GUWonder

Where is the video footage of that whole area for the 10-20 minutes prior to and after the section of the video which was released and shown in the link above?

The TSA tells cleared passengers and even those still subject to screening underway to stay far away from passengers being subjected to secondary screening. I've been told, and heard others told , to "stay far away" many times in situations where a member of my travel party or myself were subject to an alarm that hadn't been yet resolved at the screening checkpoints.

In other words, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on any insinuation that the mother's language was intentionally misleading or even intentionally inaccurate for some part of the time while the mother and disabled daughter were around the screening checkpoint.

petaluma1

What we do not see in this video, is the TSA screening itself. In order to arrive at any conclusion, that video needs to be produced also.

theddo

Will it actually matter to you if a video with her pulling a gun, shooting the officers and pledging allegiance to ISIS was released - exactly what would be required for you to change your mind?

I have a hard time thinking you would change your opinion regardless.

She didn't assault the TSA, the TSA didn't tackle her. She assaulted a cop, and a cop brought her down.

petaluma1

We don't know that because we have not seen that part of the video. Show me the video of her screening. Wish there was audio also so we could hear what screeners said to her and what she might have said to them.