Long TSA Lines [merged threads]
#601




Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: LIS/ATL/other
Programs: UA 1K, Avis PC, Hertz PC, Sixt Plat, Marriott Gold, HH Silver
Posts: 1,986
Top tier/1st class airline customers won't be charged rebooking or any other fees either. It's the non-status travelers that bear the cost of TSA's incompetence. So for those people who don't quite make the cut for private/charter flights their impact is primarily lost time and schedule disruptions.
Take your typical F-paying domestic passenger that pays $1000/ow to an airline. Airlines like these HVFs. Let's say that person's values his/her time at $750/hour. A 500-mile trip from NYC might cost:
By airline
- 30 minutes to get from city to airport (LGA/EWR/JFK)
- 90 minutes to allow for time to check in, check bags, do security, board
- 20 minutes of taxi time
- 80 minutes to fly there (with some queueing to line up for landing with all the other airliners) and taxi to the gate
- F airfare $1000
- 30 minutes to deplane and walk out and wait for checked bag
- 20 minutes to get rental car and drive off the airport
- 30 minutes to drive to destination
Total time: 300 minutes: $3750
F airfare: $1000
TOTAL: $4750
Using a private jet that costs $2500/hour
- 20 minutes to get from city to airport (let's assume TEB)
- 5 minutes to board
- 5 minutes to taxi
- 70 minutes to fly there (a bit less than an airliner because they tend to go to smaller airports with less delays for landing)
- 5 minutes to get themselves and their luggage into the rental car that is waiting for them by the plane steps
- 20 minutes to drive to destination (a bit less than from the airline airport because the GA airports are often closer to destination)
Total time: 125 minutes: $1563
Aircraft cost for those 70 minutes: $2917
TOTAL $4480
So you see, private travel is justifiable when you add the time costs. Now change the 90 minutes at the departure airport to 3 hours, and private aviation really wins. That traveler may be able to cost-justify longer and longer private trips.
This was the example for someone whose time is worth $750/hour and with 90 minutes at the departure airport. Have the TSA increase the lines such that you have to show up 3 hours in advance, and suddenly the breakeven point on the same trip will happen for someone making short of $500/hour. More and more people are able to justify private, and people are able to justify longer private flights than ever.
#602
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...more-screeners
More money isn't enough for TSA, it's just a down payment.
And a core problem remains unaddressed.
One thing that can help speed up screening seems to be a no go for TSA.
TSA's motto: "We Can't!"
TSA head: Expect more airport security delays despite funds
More money isn't enough for TSA, it's just a down payment.
Neffenger called the money a "good down payment" but said more resources were needed to address a shortage of screeners.
And a core problem remains unaddressed.
Despite Neffenger's call for more resources, there is no grand plan to return staffing to former levels, and the agency is suffering attrition rates of as high as 28 percent among its part-time workers, he said
One thing that can help speed up screening seems to be a no go for TSA.
Neffenger ruled out any return to Managed Inclusion, but he said there's been a "tremendous" increase in the number of PreCheck enrollments in recent weeks.
TSA's motto: "We Can't!"
#603




Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,446
http://www.usnews.com/news/business/...more-screeners
More money isn't enough for TSA, it's just a down payment.
And a core problem remains unaddressed.
One thing that can help speed up screening seems to be a no go for TSA.
TSA's motto: "We Can't!"
More money isn't enough for TSA, it's just a down payment.
And a core problem remains unaddressed.
One thing that can help speed up screening seems to be a no go for TSA.
TSA's motto: "We Can't!"
Neffenger ruled out any return to Managed Inclusion, but he said there's been a "tremendous" increase in the number of PreCheck enrollments in recent weeks."
Got a cure that nobody is buying? Spread the disease!
Sickening.
#604
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
We’re happy to hear it! Tell your friends and family to sign up too!
Many complaints about TSA screeners refusing to use expedited screening in regular lanes for PreCheck passengers.
Last edited by petaluma1; May 20, 2016 at 4:29 pm
#605


Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Happily living in Frenaros Cyprus having escaped the near-death experience called Sofia Bulgaria
Programs: Etihad Guest Gold, DL FO and 1MM, and a bunch of others at a low level
Posts: 2,060
Just read an article (can't find it now) that said that TSA is saying that passenger are bringing too many prohibited items in their carry-ons and that is slowing the lines down.
Sorry, not buying it. In all my travels and time spent in TSA lines I have never seen TSA find a prohibited item and confiscate it (I mean have the passenger voluntarily surrender it).
Sorry, not buying it. In all my travels and time spent in TSA lines I have never seen TSA find a prohibited item and confiscate it (I mean have the passenger voluntarily surrender it).
#606
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Neffenger shows up at ORD & lines disappear
http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byr...ort-disappear/
The long lines will reappear next week.
What is more disturbing is the fact that it was so easily fixed. What were they doing differently today that they weren't doing last week? Are they letting passengers slip through today without proper examination? Or were they so picayune when examining passengers last week on some orders from on high that it caused a giant backup? These are the kinds of questions that we will never, ever get out of a bureaucracy.
#607
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,987
#608
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
Blatant Lie on Propaganda Village
Did anybody see this fertilizer tonight?
Blogdad Bob has been "reading" that the reason for the long lines is because the TSA wants us to sign up for ExtortionCheck so they can profit from it.
He completely deflects the criticism. What a crock...
I say we let him have it with both barrels, if he has the guts to publish any comments.
Blogdad Bob has been "reading" that the reason for the long lines is because the TSA wants us to sign up for ExtortionCheck so they can profit from it.
We’ve been seeing claims suggesting that TSA is intentionally slowing down lines around the nation in order to profit from increased TSA Pre✓ enrollments.
I say we let him have it with both barrels, if he has the guts to publish any comments.
#609
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MSP
Programs: DL Gold, DL MM 8/22/16!
Posts: 2,563
Romelle
#610
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 12,681
Hartsfield-Jackson (ATL) Airport's General Manager has been fired
Officials have confirmed to 11Alive that the general manager of Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport has been fired.
I want to thank Mr. Southwell for his service to the City of Atlanta and the travelers at the worlds busiest passenger airport, said Mayor Kasim Reed. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport serves as our city's and region's dominant economic generator, and as such, I am committed to achieving maximum operational efficiencies and the highest level of customer service possible. I wish Mr. Southwell the best in the next chapter of his career."
I want to thank Mr. Southwell for his service to the City of Atlanta and the travelers at the worlds busiest passenger airport, said Mayor Kasim Reed. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport serves as our city's and region's dominant economic generator, and as such, I am committed to achieving maximum operational efficiencies and the highest level of customer service possible. I wish Mr. Southwell the best in the next chapter of his career."
#612


Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Near Chicago and Under the MDW and ORD Flight Paths, IL, USA
Programs: UA recovering Premier
Posts: 948
Mission Creep Impact?
We've seen TSA showing up at rail stations and manning checkpoints for various Presidential candidate events. I wonder how much impact there is right now from mission creep?
#613
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 74
I'm a TSO at IND. Our wait times have increased, but they still aren't as bad as the busier airports. What used to be a 10 minute wait during peak times is now maybe 20-25 minutes. We are well staffed at IND and for the last month or so have constantly had 3 lanes open, 2 standard and 1 pre. Sometimes, if the pre line is long, we'll have 2 pre lines open.
I'm lucky being at IND because our LTSOs and STSOs do actually work. They'll take care of the opt-outs, do bag checks, even jump on an AIT as an extra person if there are a lot of the same gender coming up. I know that's not the case at all airports as I've witnesses LTSOs and STSOs standing around at other airports when I've travelled.
I think one of the problems at IND is that we went so long with pretty much a 10 minute max. wait that people got used to it so they show up at the last minute expecting to breeze right through and that's just not going to happen right now, especially for the flights departing between say 0700-0830 or 1500-1700. I'm not blaming the passengers here. It's just that for the longest time, that has been the culture of IND and people came to expect that.
Another thing that happens at IND is that our FSD and ASFDs will come out and move bins around or divest passengers, freeing us up for the actual screening of those passengers.
I am still not blaming passengers for the delays, but there are things that passengers can do to speed up their own portion of the screening process. The following suggestions are assuming the passenger is going through standard screening.
At TDC: Have ID and BP ready. You won't believe how many times I'll be at TDC and a woman will have to dig to the bottom of her purse to dig out her ID and BP, which was printed either at a kiosk or the ticket counter. Also, give us one BP and ID at a time. It slows the TDC down a lot if you give them 5 passports and 5 BPs, especially if they are both in different orders. The most annoying is the people that give us multiple passports and multiple BPs for their family, they've taken the time to put one BP in each passport and then you open up the passport and see the BP is for somebody else. Also, if using a mobile BP, don't be talking on the phone when you come up to us.
When divesting: These things involve using some common sense when you're packing. Don't place your laptop all the way at the bottom of your duffel bag underneath 6 days worth of clothes. When we say nothing in your pockets, that seriously includes paper, keys, tic-tacs, cell phones, wallets, EVERYTHING. Hold your money or wallet in your hand if you want, but don't have it in your pockets. If you see the people in front of you removing their shoes, don't think that the rules will be different for you. Unless somebody in a blue shirt with a badge has told you to keep your shoes on, you should plan to take them off. We don't require people to take off belts, but we do recommend it. If you've travelled with that belt before and it has alarmed the AIT or the WTMD before, then assume it will this time as well and just remove it. If you haven't travelled with that particular belt before, then just assume it will alarm and remove it.
AIT: If you get an alarm that requires a pat-down of sensitive areas (buttocks and groin for men, buttocks, groin, and breasts for women), understand that we have to advise you about what we have to do and offer you a private screening. If you keep interrupting us during the advisements, it's going to take longer. Also, if you get any type of pat-down as a result of the AIT, don't sit there and argue with us saying that nothing should have alarmed because you got rid of all the metal you were carrying. The AIT is NOT a metal detector.
Bag checks: This is one of the biggest areas when it comes to slowing down the process for an individual passenger. Don't shove a bottle of water into the bottom of your bag, then claim you don't have one, and then claim that you thought it was ok because you bought it at the airport and it wasn't opened yet. You don't hide things and then lie about hiding them if you thought they were ok to have. Also, I don't care if your knife with an 11" blade has travelled with you for years and has never been questioned by a TSO. If I'm doing the bag check, it's not going anywhere except either to be disposed of or to the mailbox if you decide to mail it to yourself.
Opt-outs: People are more than welcome to opt-out and they have every right to do so. It does no good though to opt-out and then complain that you get patted down. We don't hide the fact that opting out will result in you getting a pat-down so you should only be mad at yourself if you're mad at anybody in that situation.
Obviously, you folks on here know these tips, but for many others, a trip to the airport brings out all kinds of stupidity.
I'm lucky being at IND because our LTSOs and STSOs do actually work. They'll take care of the opt-outs, do bag checks, even jump on an AIT as an extra person if there are a lot of the same gender coming up. I know that's not the case at all airports as I've witnesses LTSOs and STSOs standing around at other airports when I've travelled.
I think one of the problems at IND is that we went so long with pretty much a 10 minute max. wait that people got used to it so they show up at the last minute expecting to breeze right through and that's just not going to happen right now, especially for the flights departing between say 0700-0830 or 1500-1700. I'm not blaming the passengers here. It's just that for the longest time, that has been the culture of IND and people came to expect that.
Another thing that happens at IND is that our FSD and ASFDs will come out and move bins around or divest passengers, freeing us up for the actual screening of those passengers.
I am still not blaming passengers for the delays, but there are things that passengers can do to speed up their own portion of the screening process. The following suggestions are assuming the passenger is going through standard screening.
At TDC: Have ID and BP ready. You won't believe how many times I'll be at TDC and a woman will have to dig to the bottom of her purse to dig out her ID and BP, which was printed either at a kiosk or the ticket counter. Also, give us one BP and ID at a time. It slows the TDC down a lot if you give them 5 passports and 5 BPs, especially if they are both in different orders. The most annoying is the people that give us multiple passports and multiple BPs for their family, they've taken the time to put one BP in each passport and then you open up the passport and see the BP is for somebody else. Also, if using a mobile BP, don't be talking on the phone when you come up to us.
When divesting: These things involve using some common sense when you're packing. Don't place your laptop all the way at the bottom of your duffel bag underneath 6 days worth of clothes. When we say nothing in your pockets, that seriously includes paper, keys, tic-tacs, cell phones, wallets, EVERYTHING. Hold your money or wallet in your hand if you want, but don't have it in your pockets. If you see the people in front of you removing their shoes, don't think that the rules will be different for you. Unless somebody in a blue shirt with a badge has told you to keep your shoes on, you should plan to take them off. We don't require people to take off belts, but we do recommend it. If you've travelled with that belt before and it has alarmed the AIT or the WTMD before, then assume it will this time as well and just remove it. If you haven't travelled with that particular belt before, then just assume it will alarm and remove it.
AIT: If you get an alarm that requires a pat-down of sensitive areas (buttocks and groin for men, buttocks, groin, and breasts for women), understand that we have to advise you about what we have to do and offer you a private screening. If you keep interrupting us during the advisements, it's going to take longer. Also, if you get any type of pat-down as a result of the AIT, don't sit there and argue with us saying that nothing should have alarmed because you got rid of all the metal you were carrying. The AIT is NOT a metal detector.
Bag checks: This is one of the biggest areas when it comes to slowing down the process for an individual passenger. Don't shove a bottle of water into the bottom of your bag, then claim you don't have one, and then claim that you thought it was ok because you bought it at the airport and it wasn't opened yet. You don't hide things and then lie about hiding them if you thought they were ok to have. Also, I don't care if your knife with an 11" blade has travelled with you for years and has never been questioned by a TSO. If I'm doing the bag check, it's not going anywhere except either to be disposed of or to the mailbox if you decide to mail it to yourself.
Opt-outs: People are more than welcome to opt-out and they have every right to do so. It does no good though to opt-out and then complain that you get patted down. We don't hide the fact that opting out will result in you getting a pat-down so you should only be mad at yourself if you're mad at anybody in that situation.
Obviously, you folks on here know these tips, but for many others, a trip to the airport brings out all kinds of stupidity.
#614
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 74
I can't speak for rail stations, but for the presidential candidate events, most of those officers are part of the National Deployment Team so they would most likely be away from their home airports anyway. If they do still need officers to assist, then at least at IND, they only let us volunteer to assist if it's one of our days off so it still doesn't have an impact on the workforce at the airport.
#615
Join Date: May 2016
Location: MSP
Programs: SkyMiles
Posts: 4
Unfortunately I don't fly until June so if if you could share as well I'd greatly appreciate it, when I flew out back in March it took an hour, with Sky Priority....they had a damn dog training and would stop line and let it sniff bags every 10 minutes. This was a 7:30 AM flight.

