DaveBlaine

Hey, he does sound like a moron.

chollie

He wouldn't fit in at TSA.

He was polite, courteous, didn't raise his voice or insult anyone, kept his hands to himself and didn't steal anything.

He was even willing to voluntarily give his ID to the main TSO because, as he told that guy, the TSO was courteous and professional - clearly his TSO training didn't take!

I had to laugh when the pax told them he had lost the BP. An experienced TSO, like a frequent traveler, has seen wayward BPs floating around before. I've misplaced mine during flight before. If he had a password-protected cellphone, could they summon LE and force him to give up his password and display his online BP?

gingersnaps

So not allowed to fly, he was on the "no fly list". Then if he was permitted to fly very likely, as the many youtube comments suggest, he was a SSSS.

Though he does say there were no SSSS markings. Would TSA attempt to perform screening on a SSSS after the person landed; if so what is the point?

chollie

I posted earlier - if you want a fuller account, courtesy of TSOs who posted here regularly, you'll have to search the forum (and it can be a pain, sorry).

A frequent TSO poster (allegedly a trainer) told us that TSA recognizes and defends against the possibility of multiple bad actors departing from different airports, meeting at a common connection airport, and assembling the stuff they have brought into something nasty.

For instance, that was used to explain why a shell casing gets confiscated. What can you do with a shell casing? Well, you can meet friends in the sterile area who have arrived on other flights, bringing more necessary bits. Put it all together and you have a problem.

So...according to that teaching, this guy may have had contraband on him that he planned to give to a partner he was meeting on arrival or he may have been stashing it somewhere in the terminal so that someone else could retrieve it and wreak havoc.

A supervisor at T2 PHX told me that pax and their belongings are subject to search at anytime without warning and without a requirement to do it in the sight of the pax. Nothing to do with SSSS - this applies to all pax (but not TSOs or airport workers).

I can't find the link right now, but there was a particularly nasty situation where a smaller plane landed on the tarmac. It was boarded by TSA/DHS/FBI/? armed officers who told everyone on the plane to be quiet and put their hands on their heads (including little kids). Lots of threats - any movement, someone might get shot, etc.

It didn't matter that the plane had arrived safely and supposedly everyone on it had been screened and cleared by TSA. Everyone on the plane was suspect until they were cleared again.

You probably missed it when a TSA team went to a railway station (not a huge one). All arriving pax were diverted from going directly to their cars. They were forced to enter the station ('sterile area') and undergo a full bag and body check before being allowed to proceed. Please note: these were pax who had arrived at their final destination and they did not have to go through the sterile area to reach ground transportation. They were forced to go that way.

SpaceCoastBill

Because they are not sworn police officers and dont have the authority to detain anyone. Detaining someone (a seizure) opens you up to civil liability.

chollie

No worry, they've all had background checks.

Same firm that vetted Snowden, IIRC.

Actually, IIRC, such a scenario didn't involve TSOs. You flew out from Podunk to BIG (major airport). I flew from Smalltown to BIG. A couple more co-conspirators flew similar routes. We all meet in JFK. Each of us carries something that could, by itself, probably get past the TSOs. We meet in BIG and we have all the components for something nasty.

Now that I think about it, maybe that's part of the reason tools are prohibited. I always thought they were worried you would try to dismantle the airplane - I'm still ticked about a 7" Craftsman crescent wrench that got confiscated in SFO. Perhaps the fear was that tools could be used to assemble all this stuff that evil pax were going to smuggle into the 'sterile area'.

chollie

This was an odd incident in that respect. I think the TSO tasked with the search knew it was asinine but had his 'orders'.

The asking is a formality - just like a cop who pulls you over for a traffic stop. He may 'ask' to see your license or 'ask' you to get out of the car, but that's deceptive wording: there's no option to decline his requests with impunity.

Do you recall when Sen. Rand Paul was held by TSA? IIRC, he was at an airport with one of those glass enclosures and he was 'held' there. He was clearly detained, he was not free to go. The only way to challenge them was to try to walk away. If you do that, you risk them surrounding you and trying to provoke physical contact - any physical contact will do, because then you have 'assaulted' a TSO and LE will detain you and TSA will throw the book at you.

Generally speaking, TSO can't detain you personally - but they can and will call the LEs who will do their bidding.

DaveBlaine

But isn't that what they are trying to do?

DaveBlaine

In other words, the LEO is just the muscle and the TSO is the one calling the shots?

chollie

Yes, that is generally true.

A friend puts it this way: LEs are the tools TSOs use to perform your detention.

DaveBlaine

So, why would a LEO require more education, training and pay/benefits and presumably a more thorough background check if they're just pawns for the TSA Agents?

Can this be explained by the un-even balance between Federal and State Powers?

Boggie Dog

My opinion, most airport cops are on the "Road Program" (retired on active duty) or have been assigned to airports just to keep them out of harms way.

The guy in the video played it about right. Not to pushy nor giving in to easily.

chollie

The LEs in my extended family tell me that police departments don't assign their best and brightest to the airport (or to be high school resource officers).

Seems like a jurisdictional nightmare. If someone displays verbal 'attitude' towards a screener, whose rule or law have they violated? If a TSO decides to order a pax off airport property and the cops enforce the pax's removal, what law are they enforcing? The TSO in this incident seemed to think his mandate ended at the boundary to the sterile area, but TSOs have accosted people in the non-sterile areas and even parking lots - backed up by the cops.

A lot of times TSOs give the cops what they are looking for: a TSO has gotten his feelings hurt, so he retaliates by telling the officer the pax made threats or 'interfered with the screening process'. That doesn't violate any city or state laws I'm aware of, but the cop translates that into 'resisting lawful orders' or something similar and uses that as the necessary excuse to do the TSO's bidding.

DaveBlaine

You would think more people would WANT to be TSO's then if they could order cops around. Think of the power. I wonder how far outside of the airport and or airport property that authority extends. Wait, it's Federal, so I guess they have powers nationwide then.

Damn.

chollie

You're scoffing, but there have been TSOs who tried to exert their own authority (federal agents flashing badges) outside the airport - it's happened more than once, although I hardly think it's a frequent occurrence.

I obviously can't speak to all airports or police departments, but I do know that some cops' bosses do not want calls from the local FSD complaining that the cops aren't backing the TSOs. They are stationed at the airport in a supporting role for the TSOs, so it's hardly surprising if some of them see it as an 'us v. them' situation. Brothers-in-arms and all that.

There are certainly some 'good' cops at airports; I've encountered one. The LEs in my family will point out that unfortunately, sometimes even good cops get a 'timeout' and get assigned to the airport, but it is most certainly not a position anyone vies for. Unless a cop gets 'lucky' enough to be involved in an airport disaster (shooting at LAX), it's not a career-enhancing assignment.

I believe the official line is that all TSOs signed up to fight terror on the home front. They put themselves at risk every day of their lives for us. Anything they do to us, by themselves or with the assistance of LEs, is for our own good. They accept the badge and authority only with the greatest reluctance and would never abuse it.

Re-read about Rand Paul's experience. TSA steadily maintained that they weren't detaining him.

They weren't - but if he tried to leave, the LEs were there to stop him. He had broken no law that those LEs are sworn to enforce - unless you consider 'failure to follow a TSO's order' a law.