Blogndog

It's needed. I never get to use a passport through to expiry because the pages fill up first. Some countries require as many as 3 blank consecutive pages or they will not issue a visa.

cafeconleche

Uh, it's needed for you. I don't need or want it, neither for myself nor my kids who also have an EU passport that we carry with us when we travel (so they already have double the pages by default). I don't travel that much to countries that require tons of passport space, and I'm happy to renew if and when it becomes necessary, even years before it expires. It's a risk I'm willing to take

GUWonder

I would say that renewing outside of the US is generally at least a bit of an inconvenience for most parents with young minors. And the less often it is required to go into the embassy/consulate for ACS or anywhere lese for those passports, the more convenient it is.

If you get the chance, you could apply for US passports while in the US to avoid the "big book" version.

Blogndog

Unless the process/application form has changed recently, there is a tick box where you choose between two options on the number of pages, and the form is identical regardless of where you apply (at a US post office or passport office or at a consulate abroad)

GUWonder

There is, but that selection -- and even the passport card selection -- is too often ignored for some reason or another. State even says the following when it comes to the passport book size:

Blogndog

Hmm..well they didn't do that for me last time I renewed - I wanted the big book and got the standard. When I complained, they pulled up my signed application and showed me I had submitted it with the "standard" option selected which was the default (I didn't submit a paper form, they had computer terminals at the consulate where you completed the application on-line, and I guess I just didn't notice the check box). In any event, because I complained, they agreed to insert two additional page inserts free of charge (used to always be free, but this was after they introduced the 83 dollar fee for extra pages, and now of course they won't do it at all)

TWA884

This is the Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate forum. The subject of this thread is the upcoming more secure version of the US passport, a topic which is relevant to border security. The size of the passport book when applying to renew a passport while outside the United States has nothing to do with border security and is off-topic for this forum and thread (FT Rule 5). If you wish to continue discussing UP passport book sizes, please do so in the USA forum, where non-security related US passport topics are generally discussed.

Thank you for understanding,

TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator

seawolf

Fee increase is being "proposed." Comments being solicited until May 25.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...2021-06263.pdf

The NextGen makes up only a part of the increase of $20. Other rationale described in PDF.

GUWonder

Much of that increased compensation cost based on ABC-metrics -- tied in ways to time+motion studies -- should also be directly connected to the "enhanced printing technology costs for the Next Generation (NextGen) passport book. [If not, get set for a faster series of fee increases because of this transition.] The "NextGen" stock not only costs more than the general stock already in general circulation, but it also costs more to use the "NextGen" stock to issue passports.

Passport adjudicators are primarily State employees who on average (IIRC) make about $70k/year in salary and work at the passport agencies around the country. Additional security elements involved in the processing increase not only the time it takes them to process the passport application and issue the passport but it also increases the costs that arise from the mistakes that take place in using the blanks to make passports.

People really should ask what additional bang for their buck are they getting for the fee increase that comes with this. Will say a c. $400 million/year increase in fees paid for by US citizens to get the next generation passports provide a c. $400 million increase in "security" value (over the current state) to those very citizens issued the next generation US passport? Probably not, IMO.

seawolf

FWIW, The PDF shows a forecast that this increase will bring in an additional $318 million for FY22 and the "the NextGen printer system replaces end-of-life equipment that uses outdated technology, and improves passport security features in line with current international standards for identity documents while enhancing border security."

Not sure how much it cost to replace current technology.

GUWonder

The current US passports are not "in line with current international standards for identity documents"? Since they are widely accepted for use, they should be considered in line with current international standards for identity documents. And since US passports are not considered way more insecure than most other passports out there for border crossings, it's reasonable to conclude that US passport security features are already "in line with current international standards for identity documents while enhancing border security".

The cost to replace the current technology is almost certainly higher than the cost to maintain the current technology in more widespread use for several more years. It's not common to see a multi-site government technology transition where having two kinds of system pieces in place for even a handful of months is cheaper in the short and medium term than not having any transition; that is unless the legacy system is non-functional or plagued with highly frequent, mass level critical failures. This is why the "returns" from government projects in this area usually rely upon other things to try to justify the expenditures to perform a technology change. But toss in the word "security" and money just flows despite the questionable returns on the expenditure.

The legacy printing system for current generation passport issuing is not plagued with highly frequent, mass level critical failures. [Hint: Get on the trail of where the phased-out system equipment ends up still in use in 2023 and beyond.]

If the increased fee comes into place for the government's 2022 fiscal year, then how much in additional fees it brings in during October 2021- September 2022 is going to be in large part tied to how many people apply for US passports in that period. It seems that whomever that report relied upon for that estimated $318 million figure has a different idea of what to expect in numbers than some others. With the estimated additional $318 million dollars for October 2021-September 2022, will US citizens be getting $318 million additional dollars of security for it? I doubt it.

What's interesting is how much more expensive the next generation US passports will cost holders than foreign passports with comparable security features in other countries cost their holders. In Sweden -- a high-labor cost country and one without the benefit of the economies of scale that the US can get -- "the next generation" type passport fee for its citizens is about $40 (although only valid for 5 years at most) per passport. The US wants what? $100-$130 per passport. I'd rather have a lower fee and the current generation passport than the next generation passport. Unfortunately, US citizens aren't given the option to get more value for the money paid in fees by being able to select to stick with what already works.

The notion of "these are just user fees covering the cost of use" and "we are giving you better security" has negative consequences on value for money that the seekers of US passport service get.

Mabuk dan gila

FWIW, the EU maintains a website cataloging the features of passports and a variety of other documents from many nations, to assist in authentication of documents when necessary. They have added the "new" US Passport to their database here. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/prad...001/index.html

Valerian

interesting. Design leaves a lot to be desired. Nevertheless, I wouldn’t expect this to be announced until 2022 and begin widespread and regular circulation until 2023, at the earliest. The contract for this is still being performed and has been extended multiple times. Currently the last major order runs until about March or April 2022. It *MAY* get announced after that. It will also take at least a full year before it is the solely produced passport version.

link to contract: https://www.google.com/amp/s/govtrib...mma17d0163/amp

This one may be a ways away from official announcement and issuance.

very embarrassing that it is taking them almost a decade to get this out. Also embarrassing that the reveal is coming from a European site, rather from the US Dept of State.

Valerian

From the GPO website here: https://www.gpo.gov/docs/default-sou...nce-report.pdf

for FY2022 the goal is, “ Continue to strengthen the quality assurance programs, process and equipment improvement projects, and customer focused initiatives needed to reach steady state production, quality packaging, and distribution systems for a long term NextGen Passport production program.”

this is seeming like 2022 announcement at the earliest. Maybe even 2023. Very very odd that a European site would get the jump on the announcement a year or more before the issuing agency.

cafeconleche

Looks like DoS might have sent the release to other entities for an impending rollout, and they or the EU or both forgot to amend the release and some bureaucrat or machine proceeded.