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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Undocumented aliens Allowed To Fly On Commericial Flights Without ID (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1593556-undocumented-aliens-allowed-fly-commericial-flights-without-id.html)

cbn42 Sep 10, 2014 6:11 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDesi (Post 23507132)
cbn42 says DACA recipient's parents also have some special status.

Where?

FlyingDesi Sep 10, 2014 6:15 pm

When you said that The United States does not have the right to verify the claims of DACA recipients or their parents. The US has all the right to verify any claims by any illegal or undocumented person who have not been granted DACA, even if they are related to DACA holders.

FTcadence Sep 11, 2014 11:33 am

A newly proposed bill is seeking to prohibit the TSA from allowing individuals to fly with just a Notice to Appear as a form of ID.

http://starlocalmedia.com/carrollton...83ce7e9b7.html

NoMoreFlying Sep 11, 2014 12:00 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTcadence (Post 23510900)
A newly proposed bill is seeking to prohibit the TSA from allowing individuals to fly with just a Notice to Appear as a form of ID.

http://starlocalmedia.com/carrollton...83ce7e9b7.html

Oh my ever loving patootie! What a waste of money and time.

Blogndog Sep 11, 2014 12:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTcadence (Post 23510900)
A newly proposed bill is seeking to prohibit the TSA from allowing individuals to fly with just a Notice to Appear as a form of ID.

http://starlocalmedia.com/carrollton...83ce7e9b7.html

And this would contribute to aviation security how?

GUWonder Sep 11, 2014 1:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTcadence (Post 23510900)
A newly proposed bill is seeking to prohibit the TSA from allowing individuals to fly with just a Notice to Appear as a form of ID.

http://starlocalmedia.com/carrollton...83ce7e9b7.html

That Congressman is trying to meddle with people complying with US laws. Why else would that character want to frustrate people from showing up to legal proceedings on time? It seems like that Congressional guy from Texas hates our courts and more than just that.

My concern is what else this bill would block. If the TSA got out of the ID checking nonsense then this issue wouldn't even arise.

FlyingDesi Sep 11, 2014 3:09 pm

I think individual airlines should be responsible for their security. They will be thorough at the same time polite enough not to loose business and if any incident does happen, it will be affect their individual image, not just the entire airline industry.

GUWonder Sep 11, 2014 4:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDesi (Post 23512033)
I think individual airlines should be responsible for their security. They will be thorough at the same time polite enough not to loose business and if any incident does happen, it will be affect their individual image, not just the entire airline industry.

I have doubt it works that way so easily. Most US airports used by the common carriers are not single-airline-per-terminal airports.

FlyingDesi Sep 12, 2014 7:47 am

Maybe its time to overhaul the airports. I know this involves a drastic change of things but if you see some European airports, they have security right before boarding and maybe design airports in such a way. My flight load might be less and instead of taking advantage of that, I still have to stand in line along with people trying all other lines, go through one size fits all attitude.

As the world evolves, population grows, the government cannot be expected to secure each and every business and frankly its not their business to provide security for all private businesses. Why doesn't TSA check when someone goes into a Mall to shop? What different is a concentrated space of public in a mall than an Airline? Use all that money they are wasting on better intelligence, developing better screening technologies....

GUWonder Sep 12, 2014 8:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingDesi (Post 23515147)
Maybe its time to overhaul the airports. I know this involves a drastic change of things but if you see some European airports, they have security right before boarding and maybe design airports in such a way. My flight load might be less and instead of taking advantage of that, I still have to stand in line along with people trying all other lines, go through one size fits all attitude.

As the world evolves, population grows, the government cannot be expected to secure each and every business and frankly its not their business to provide security for all private businesses. Why doesn't TSA check when someone goes into a Mall to shop? What different is a concentrated space of public in a mall than an Airline? Use all that money they are wasting on better intelligence, developing better screening technologies....

Most common carrier flights from European airports do not have gate-area security right before boarding. Gate-area security right before boarding is applicable to a small fraction of flights departing from an EU airport. Most EU flight passengers are screened at a central checkpoint much like in the US and are not subject to gate-area screening for boarding.

Quite clearly your experience of flying in Europe has been colored by flying to/from non-Schengen airports. Those (non-Schengen destination flights) are a small minority of European passenger flights; and of those minority flights, a large proportion of those too use only central screening checkpoints for flights to/from non-European airports.

catocony Sep 12, 2014 8:49 am

I'm just amazed that some people are concerned about undocumented aliens traveling on commercial planes, with no weapons or intent to do harm. Some are scared they will do "something" on a plane. Meanwhile, they don't seem to have much of an issue with an undocumented alien babysitting their children, cleaning their homes, fixing their roofs, preparing their food in restaurants, etc etc.

Very strange, modern racism in America. If migrants work for cheap and stay in their place, no problem. If a migrant sits beside you on an airplane, suddenly they're a security or health risk.

WillCAD Sep 12, 2014 9:51 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by catocony (Post 23515429)
I'm just amazed that some people are concerned about undocumented aliens traveling on commercial planes, with no weapons or intent to do harm. Some are scared they will do "something" on a plane. Meanwhile, they don't seem to have much of an issue with an undocumented alien babysitting their children, cleaning their homes, fixing their roofs, preparing their food in restaurants, etc etc.

Very strange, modern racism in America. If migrants work for cheap and stay in their place, no problem. If a migrant sits beside you on an airplane, suddenly they're a security or health risk.

Well, if you look at it logically, it makes sense.

The people who are complaining about the "undocumented" who are flying without ID are not the same people who victimize them by hiring them under the table, paying them peanuts, and failing to provide the legally mandated benefits and protections that a legal employee is entitled to.

Those who hire illegal aliens under such circumstances are a major part of the problem, no matter what your stance on illegal immigration is, because they are violating numerous laws themselves and taking advantage of the illegals, who wouldn't dare report labor law violations for fear of being discovered and deported.

I'm not scared of anyone who wishes to travel incognito, if they go through the typical security screening. Provided that such screening is no more invasive than necessary, in light of current technology, to discover weapons, explosives, and incendiaries.

GUWonder Sep 12, 2014 10:14 am

Most undocumented migrants working in the US are being victimized? I don't know about you, but if my option was to live on work for five dollars a day in India or live on the same work for ten dollars an hour in the US, I would almost certainly choose the ten dollars an hour in the US and be thankful for it every day. I wouldn't consider myself a victim for having a dignified job just because I got paid less than someone else; if I did, then most of us US citizens may be victims too of not getting paid the highest wage/salary/compensation package for the work done. The labor demand side is the major driver for undocumented migrant flows to the US and it is a problem. But how many of us are willing to pay double for our fruits and vegetables and meat? More Americans would be stuck eating way less healthier food if it weren't for the contributions of these people to the country.

I too think that it's no big deal if an un(der)documented migrant is on my flight after having them and their belongings also searched for weapons/explosives/incendiaries.

I'll take the relatively more affordable healthy food and the no-ID-required-to-fly outcomes. Our health and security would be better for it.

NoMoreFlying Sep 12, 2014 10:36 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 23515901)
Most undocumented migrants working in the US are being victimized? I don't know about you, but if my option was to live on work for five dollars a day in India or live on the same work for ten dollars an hour in the US, I would almost certainly choose the ten dollars an hour in the US and be thankful for it every day. I wouldn't consider myself a victim for having a dignified job just because I got paid less than someone else; if I did, then most of us US citizens may be victims too of not getting paid the highest wage/salary/compensation package for the work done. The labor demand side is the major driver for undocumented migrant flows to the US and it is a problem. But how many of us are willing to pay double for our fruits and vegetables and meat? More Americans would be stuck eating way less healthier food if it weren't for the contributions of these people to the country.

I too think that it's no big deal if an un(der)documented migrant is on my flight after having them and their belongings also searched for weapons/explosives/incendiaries.

I'll take the relatively more affordable healthy food and the no-ID-required-to-fly outcomes. Our health and security would be better for it.

Thank you! ^

catocony Sep 12, 2014 11:36 am

WillCAD and GU, I agree with you. I'm one of those who think there shouldn't be any form of ID check to go through an airport. If you don't have a weapon, then you're not a threat. Easy as that. Screen everyone - properly and logically, with WTMD - and be done with it.

As far as migrants, a buddy of mine put it this way years ago. "Knowing what I know as an American, if I were Mexican, the Border Patrol would be pulling my butt down off the fence every day until I got through". There is a demand in the US for cheap labor. I'm not arguing why that is, or why unemployed in the US can't/won't/aren't in a position to fill that demand. Or, why businesses seek out the cheapest labor possible, not to mention individual citizens who are responsible for a large chunk of "unreported" labor hiring (think a soccer mom hiring a couple of day laborers off the street to move furniture out of a house). Regardless, the demand exists, and immigrants come here to fill that demand. That does not make them criminals.

The idea that every immigrant coming here is sick, or a gang member, or a criminal of some kind is racist and crazy.


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