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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Undocumented aliens Allowed To Fly On Commericial Flights Without ID (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1593556-undocumented-aliens-allowed-fly-commericial-flights-without-id.html)

NoMoreFlying Jul 12, 2014 1:46 am


Originally Posted by zombietooth (Post 23183585)
You're obviously missing the comedy here:

Why should American citizens be required to show photo ID to fly when unverifiable aliens, who could give any name and country of origin to CBP or even fake a blank form, can fly without absolutely no proof of who they are?

This case just shows the absurd futility of the TSA, the scanners, the no-fly list, etc., etc. It is all just wasted effort and we are NO safer for any of it.

You too (I am assuming you are an American citizen) can fly without showing photo ID. TSA wants photo ID, but not everyone has photo ID. When I lost my ID before returning home from HI, I was allowed to show a credit card with my name on it as ID. I was informed my library card would have been accepted too.

Spiff Jul 12, 2014 9:58 am


Originally Posted by NoMoreFlying (Post 23184057)
You too (I am assuming you are an American citizen) can fly without showing photo ID. TSA wants photo ID, but not everyone has photo ID. When I lost my ID before returning home from HI, I was allowed to show a credit card with my name on it as ID. I was informed my library card would have been accepted too.

Did you have to answer intrusive questions that were none of any government employee's business?

WindOfFreedom Jul 12, 2014 10:07 am


Originally Posted by zombietooth (Post 23183585)
You're obviously missing the comedy here:

Why should American citizens be required to show photo ID to fly when unverifiable aliens, who could give any name and country of origin to CBP or even fake a blank form, can fly without absolutely no proof of who they are?

This case just shows the absurd futility of the TSA, the scanners, the no-fly list, etc., etc. It is all just wasted effort and we are NO safer for any of it.

Hear-hear! ^^^^^

SeriouslyLost Jul 12, 2014 12:02 pm


Originally Posted by zombietooth (Post 23183585)
You're obviously missing the comedy here:

Why should American citizens be required to show photo ID to fly when unverifiable aliens, who could give any name and country of origin to CBP or even fake a blank form, can fly without absolutely no proof of who they are?

This case just shows the absurd futility of the TSA, the scanners, the no-fly list, etc., etc. It is all just wasted effort and we are NO safer for any of it.

No, that's the tragedy part. The comedy part is the beat up and flag-wrapping going on at Breitbart over it all. The "illegal aliens might have scabies!" bit is simply comedy gold on top of it all.

(The forms are surprisingly hard to fake, btw. Not that TSA would be able to tell the difference, but people should at least try for accuracy while shrieking)

NoMoreFlying Jul 12, 2014 12:19 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 23184531)
Did you have to answer intrusive questions that were none of any government employee's business?

No, no questions. Nothing. I even arrived an extra hour early in anticipation of being hassled... I mean put through additional security. I told the gatekeeper I had lost my ID. She asked for something else with my name on it, such as a credit card or library card, and I was on my way.

That TSA screening was about the easiest I have ever experienced, in spite of my lack of ID.

I am sure it had something to do with the every changing SOP in order to keep the terrorist off balance.;)

zombietooth Jul 12, 2014 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost (Post 23185044)
No, that's the tragedy part. The comedy part is the beat up and flag-wrapping going on at Breitbart over it all. The "illegal aliens might have scabies!" bit is simply comedy gold on top of it all.

(The forms are surprisingly hard to fake, btw. Not that TSA would be able to tell the difference, but people should at least try for accuracy while shrieking)

Sorry, nowhere in the Breitbart article does it mention scabies, yet you used quotation marks. Did you actually read the article?

The scabies/lice issue was first raised first by an ABC News report out of San Diego. Where is your evidence that the report was untrue? Here is the report for your reference:

http://www.10news.com/news/questions...s-hospitalized

Secondly, how are the forms surprisingly hard to fake? Is the union rep. just lying about that? What is your evidence?

SeriouslyLost Jul 12, 2014 8:25 pm


Originally Posted by zombietooth (Post 23185397)
Sorry, nowhere in the Breitbart article does it mention scabies, yet you used quotation marks. Did you actually read the article?

It was referencing a comment made earlier in the thread. Post #5 to be exact. The post you supported in post #6.

tkey75 Jul 13, 2014 8:13 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 23184531)
Did you have to answer intrusive questions that were none of any government employee's business?

I've been through that, too after a lost wallet incident. A VERY expired college ID was all that was needed to get me through the TSA gauntlet. No questions asked.

Pesky Monkey Jul 13, 2014 6:47 pm


Originally Posted by zombietooth (Post 23182840)
So anyone who disagrees with the current border enforcement policy is a "xenophobe"?

"I'd be more concerned being on a flight with one of these illegal aliens who is infested with scabies or lice. I sure wouldn't want to sit next to them."

Does this sound more like a disagreement with border enforcement policy or xenophobia? Please enlighten us.

cbn42 Jul 14, 2014 1:00 am

My guess is that if someone is in the removal process and has been released on bail or recognizance, they are not eligible for state ID or any other sort of government-issued ID. Their foreign passports may have been confiscated by the court when they were released. Since requiring them to produce ID from a list of documents that they cannot obtain would effectively bar them from flying without due process, the government had to find a way around this, and accepting the Notice to Appear was the easiest way to do that.

SeriouslyLost Jul 14, 2014 2:00 am


Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 23191924)
My guess is that if someone is in the removal process and has been released on bail or recognizance, they are not eligible for state ID or any other sort of government-issued ID.

In several states they can get state ID's and/or driver's licenses. It's possible they can get work permission while waiting for their cases to clear/come up. It all depends on the classification. As I mentioned to the person rabbiting on about everything being a fallacy, there are even certain classes of status where the removal form is issued as a matter of course while they transition to a different status - Cubans and Haitians refugees adjusting to PR status primarily.




Their foreign passports may have been confiscated by the court when they were released. Since requiring them to produce ID from a list of documents that they cannot obtain would effectively bar them from flying without due process, the government had to find a way around this, and accepting the Notice to Appear was the easiest way to do that.
Hope you're looking forward to being declared a master of fallacy. ;) :)

cbn42 Jul 14, 2014 3:38 am


Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost (Post 23192051)
In several states they can get state ID's and/or driver's licenses. It's possible they can get work permission while waiting for their cases to clear/come up. It all depends on the classification. As I mentioned to the person rabbiting on about everything being a fallacy, there are even certain classes of status where the removal form is issued as a matter of course while they transition to a different status - Cubans and Haitians refugees adjusting to PR status primarily.

"Several states" isn't good enough, because there are still some that don't. I realize it depends on the classification, but do you really expect the TSA to keep track of the different classifications? The fact remains that there are people who can't legally get anything else on the list but still have the right to fly, so the TSA has to accept it. If they accept it, they accept it from everyone who holds it.

susiesan Jul 14, 2014 8:44 am


Originally Posted by Pesky Monkey (Post 23190883)
"I'd be more concerned being on a flight with one of these illegal aliens who is infested with scabies or lice. I sure wouldn't want to sit next to them."

Does this sound more like a disagreement with border enforcement policy or xenophobia? Please enlighten us.

I't's neither. It's a concern about my health and having to sit next to an obviously sick and infected person no matter where they come from. The same goes for people who board planes with an active case of TB. Would you be content to sit next to them if you knew they were sick?

NoMoreFlying Jul 14, 2014 11:55 am


Originally Posted by susiesan (Post 23193209)
I't's neither. It's a concern about my health and having to sit next to an obviously sick and infected person no matter where they come from. The same goes for people who board planes with an active case of TB. Would you be content to sit next to them if you knew they were sick?

To clarify: Do you believe that anyone allowed to fly holding a I-862 (Notice to Appear) will be "sick and infected"or do you believe anyone allowed to fly with a photo ID will not be "sick and infected"?

susiesan Jul 14, 2014 1:33 pm


Originally Posted by NoMoreFlying (Post 23194202)
To clarify: Do you believe that anyone allowed to fly holding a I-862 (Notice to Appear) will be "sick and infected"or do you believe anyone allowed to fly with a photo ID will not be "sick and infected"?

If someone with a photo ID is sick and infected and needs to be tracked down by the CDC after the flight we know who they are and where to find them. With illegal aliens sick and infected holding only a I-862 Notice to Appear we would never find them and never know who they are or where they came from.


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