Fredd

A quick comment - it seems particularly ironic to be talking about federal agents enforcing zero tolerance policies when the DOJ has just more or less come out in opposition to their execution, at least regarding public education and the ongoing horror stories of draconian suspensions, expulsions, registering six-year-olds as sex offenders, etc.

It's difficult to discuss this without getting into Godwin's law "I-only-follow-orders" territory.

InkUnderNails

I think I will get one of these, throw it in my almost always searched carry on and see what happens. Since they started taking the Nexus without a problem, I need some fun at the checkpoint. I have to remember to keep my phone recorder on. It is in my personal item and usually in my possession during the bag check.

Carl Johnson

Not as difficult as you think. Since when do they only follow orders? If they followed orders, things would be a lot simpler. For example, the orders are to allow medical liquids, for example, but they don't do it. If they did - or were fired for not doing it - it would be easier for everybody.

tanja

We live in a time when a lot of people have tattooes. What would they do to a passenger who has a gun/riffle tattooe? Can hardly be considered as dangerous! But who knows.

FredAnderssen

I think the real irony here, if someone hasn't mentioned it already, is that the "zero tolerance" policies seem to be only in one direction. If one is caught carrying a two-inch, plastic six-shooter along with a toy puppet, that's it for you.

On the other hand, if the TSA makes a mistake by not following their own SOP (not allowing pictures at checkpoints, not allowing breast milk, not allowing empty plastic bottles etc.), there seems to be plenty of wiggle room to get said TSA screener off the hook.

I say if they want to implement a zero tolerance policy, it should cut both ways. There should be severe discipline or firing for any agent who violates SOP.

Darkumbra

You need to voluntarily hand over the pound of flesh on which it resides.

chollie

First thing that picture made me think of is the colorful little plastic 'swords' used to hold cherries and olives in mixed drinks in some bars.

Too bad there's not a pink GI Jane version - even more threatening!

FredAnderssen

For those who don't want to click on the link, here's the picture associated with the GI-Joe sized guns and swords:



Hilarious!

chollie

Medical nitro pills have been around longer than TSA. The rules are zero tolerance for the substance. There is nothing else on the website and clearly, nothing in the SOP. You might handle the situation differently: perhaps you don't read labels and open bottles of pills when you examine a bag.

Nevertheless, the rules are clear and there's no latitude (except in the case of snowglobes) for screeners to use personal judgment. In suggesting that you or other screeners might do so, you're reinforcing the notion that the rules are whatever you or any other screener says they are. That can cut both ways - it can mean judicious application of common sense or it can mean pure stupidity.

And you know what? Someone could drop and die tomorrow in the sterile area because they don't have the med and TSA will still not change that rule. Risking someone's life or health is just an acceptable cost of doing business.

It is quite likely that someone in DHS top brass carries these same pills around themselves. Of course, none of them will ever have their bag randomly or deliberately subjected to label-reading and cap-removing inspection of their medications.

DeafBlonde

Please, in the name of all that is Holy, tell me that the blue-shirted ignoramuses did NOT open the bottle labeled "Nitro Glycerine" tablets!! How insane is that?

"Nitro Glycerin is an explosive and therefore banned, so I have to risk my life by popping the lid to take a closer look...yup, yup, yup..."

chollie

No. My nitro didn't even excite the swab. (It's a tiny glass bottle inside a regular clear brown pill bottle with the prescription label on it and they swabbed the outside bottle). It was confiscated because the TSO doing the bag check was also reading labels.

There have been reports of TSOs opening pill bottles. I guess if the bottle is opaque, something dangerous could be concealed inside. Mini-razor blades, perhaps.

DeafBlonde

Nevertheless, they should have know that Nitro Glycerine (if they seriously thought it was the real deal) is a highly unstable explosive. Even handling the substance in a less than gentle manner could cause it to go "BOOM"!

relangford

Nitroglycerin pills are not explosive. They are used to treat chest pain (to prevent heart attacks). They should be allowed through by TSA as any other prescribed medication; in fact, they are likely more critical to be taken quickly than most other meds. Nitroglycerin (the explosive) looks like clear, thick water or low-viscosity gel. One could probably get 100 mL through the screening process as shampoo (but that amount would be too small to seriously damage the aircraft, even if detonated).

gsoltso

Chemically the nitro in the pills is the same as that found in the explosive version, however, the addition of other material and chemicals makes them exploding a virtual impossibility until you get to the order of hundreds of thousands of pills - and even then, you would have to stirp out the other chemicals and material to do so. I just find it difficult (based upon my experiences and the commonality of nitro being used medically) to understand the confusion on this subject. You can take medical nitro pills and throw them down, bang them with a hammer, shake them around and no reaction will take place. There is an off chance that they can burn (although that seems to be more common with the patches than the spray or pills). As for reading the bottles, I can not recall reading the bottles, of course, if there is no possible threat item in the bottle, then I would not have to. There are passengers that carry a rollaboard full of medicinal products with them, it is not a TSOs job to regulate what medicines are theirs or someone elses, the job is to clear their stuff for possible threat items. As for the rules being clear, in some cases yes, in many cases, no. It is next to impossible to get an all encompassing list of what items can go, and what items can not, which is why you find vague references in the posted prohibs list - club like items, realistic replica... They are purposely left vague in order to give some of that latitude to the TSOs to make a determination on an item not specifically listed. The problem with phrases and definitions like that are the different interpretations by different people, there will be as many differing opinions as there are cars on the road. That is why I favor more clearly defined statements like "clublike devices 36" in length or larger" "realistic replica firearms of 4" or larger" (just as something pulled out of thin air). That list would have to be collaborated on with stakeholders and HQ, but more clearly defined lists would eliminate some of the confusion for the passengers.

As far as judicious use of common sense, there is a reaonably articulable reason that I can make for this item to be let go (the same for the toy gun with the sock monkey) - in this case it is fairly easy, it is a prescribed medicine that is not explosive, it has been in common use in this country since long before any of us were born. In the case of medical items, that is fairly clear cut/black and white as found on the TSA.gov site:

"Passengers are allowed to bring medications in pill or other solid form through security screening checkpoints in unlimited amounts, as long as they are screened. TSA does not require passengers to have medications in prescription bottles, but states have individual laws regarding the labeling of prescription medication with which passengers need to comply."

Caradoc

I know that. You know that.

The average GED-wielding blue-gloved blue-shirted TSA "screener" sees the word "nitroglycerine" and immediately thinks "OH MY GHOD THOSE PASSENGERS ARE ALL GOING TO DIE IF I DON'T CONFISCATE THIS!"

Or they'll at least pretend to that, because if nobody is afraid of being blown up, the TSA employees will all be digging through Dumpsters looking for something to eat.