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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Should TSA agents be armed? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1518182-should-tsa-agents-armed.html)

Boggie Dog Nov 5, 2013 8:19 am

If by some chance TSA employees were armed and had police powers would that impact their ability to conduct an Administrative search?

Mad_Max_Esq Nov 5, 2013 8:39 am


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 21730868)
If by some chance TSA employees were armed and had police powers would that impact their ability to conduct an Administrative search?

I was wondering the same thing. It also got me wondering how courthouse security compares. At my county courthouse, sheriff's deputies run the metal detectors/x-ray and I seem to recall (it has been a while since I've been there) that US Marshals handle it at the federal courthouse. Are these LEOs also performing an administrative search?

Flaflyer Nov 5, 2013 1:24 pm


Originally Posted by DeafBlonde (Post 21730743)
I'm sure George Zimmerman would be glad to offer his services. ;)

He must be on the job already. There have been no attacks at SFB. :rolleyes:

Also, my tiger repellent rock works perfectly. Never seen a tiger in my yard.

MikeMpls Nov 5, 2013 1:29 pm

.....

Spiff Nov 5, 2013 1:32 pm


Originally Posted by MikeMpls (Post 21733042)

"Appropriate training" involves 2-4 years of college majoring in criminal justice, plus exams. To be hired, they must pass background checks and meet fitness standards.

They also have to take (and pass) psychological exams.

mikeef Nov 5, 2013 1:32 pm

I threw "should tsa be armed poll" into a google search. Here are a few results. No, they are not statistically significant, given that it's just a bunch of people on the internet, but the numbers from the three separate polls are scarily similar to each other. Note: These were the first three results I got on google that seemed to be from relatively non-partisan sources. YMMV.

here

here

here

Mike

Boggie Dog Nov 5, 2013 2:35 pm


Originally Posted by mikeef (Post 21733060)
I threw "should tsa be armed poll" into a google search. Here are a few results. No, they are not statistically significant, given that it's just a bunch of people on the internet, but the numbers from the three separate polls are scarily similar to each other. Note: These were the first three results I got on google that seemed to be from relatively non-partisan sources. YMMV.

here

here

here

Mike


All three polls only having the "No do not arm" side ahead by about 20 points. I thought it would be higher.

Spiff Nov 5, 2013 2:36 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 21733486)
All three polls only having the "No do not arm" side ahead by about 20 points. I thought it would be higher.

Where is the choice for "Get rid of this disgusting, un-American agency!"? :(

chollie Nov 5, 2013 2:52 pm

We have a tragic incident at an airport and suddenly there's talk about expending millions of dollars training and arming another quasi-military force (instead of ramping up and/or better deploying security). For that matter, what's with all the cameras? More cameras monitoring the landside area/checkpoint area with backroom monitors scanning for trouble - better, wider perspective, can quickly alert someone on the ground to take a closer look - would also be an option.

At any rate, consensus seems to be quickly spend plenty of taxpayer $$$.

After the Colorado theater shooting, where far more lives were lost, why wasn't there an immediate demand for armed guards in all theaters? Aren't innocent civilian lives worth just as much as government employee lives?

Oh, wait...armed guards in theaters would have to be paid for by theater owners, by jacking up ticket prices, not by taxpayers.

In one case, it's a wise and pragmatic use of taxpayers' $$$; in the other, too much to spend on something statistically unlikely.

TheRoadie Nov 5, 2013 3:17 pm

In the same vein as my earlier suggestion to buy armor for any screener who wants it, TSA could put snare nets on the ceiling over every checkpoint. Anything bad goes down, instead of calling a Code Bravo, they just push a button and everybody in the area gets snared. Keeps the bad guy corraled while LEOs show up. Keeps the passengers in other areas of the terminal safe.

Might have a bad outcome for the innocents trapped along with the bad guy, but it's like being on the undesirable side of a waterproof hatch as the ship goes down. Sometimes you lose the draw.

The greatest good for the greatest number, and all that.

chollie Nov 5, 2013 3:22 pm


Originally Posted by TheRoadie (Post 21733769)
In the same vein as my earlier suggestion to buy armor for any screener who wants it, TSA could put snare nets on the ceiling over every checkpoint. Anything bad goes down, instead of calling a Code Bravo, they just push a button and everybody in the area gets snared. Keeps the bad guy corraled while LEOs show up. Keeps the passengers in other areas of the terminal safe.

Might have a bad outcome for the innocents trapped along with the bad guy, but it's like being on the undesirable side of a waterproof hatch as the ship goes down. Sometimes you lose the draw.

The greatest good for the greatest number, and all that.

Why buy armor for every TSO? Do like commercial operators do: have a supply of armor (with the wars winding down, DHS should be able to get it from the military) and let TSOs who want to check it out at the beginning of shift and return it at the end of shift. Keep strict inventory control and deduct the cost of any missing vests from the last individual who checked it out.

For those who want tailor-made armor or something a cut above, do what construction workers do: buy your own, deduct the cost on your taxes. Don't file deductions? Well, then you're no worse off than a construction worker who buys his own hard hat and steel toe boots.

The answers don't always have to be 'Quick! Find someone who will give us an answer if we sign a contract to pay a lot of taxpayer $$'.

Bearcat06 Nov 5, 2013 3:54 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 21729628)
.... except they do make good money when doing the VIPER stuff away from their "home" area. Even when not going away, some want the hours anyway.

True....but all the folks I know that get stuck on that crap end up in their home areas and don't make what they make flying.....so most don't care for it....

Bearcat06 Nov 5, 2013 4:00 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21733801)
DHS should be able to get it from the military
.

The only issue with the military stuff is that it's bulky and one would suspect that folks would have issues wearing it and trying to do their jobs....

That's why LE wears soft body armor under their uniforms. Lighter and less restrictive. We only wear the "military" stuff when we are going on raids when rifles totting bad-guys could be in the picture.....

I could only imagine watching some of the fat dudes/chicks wearing the bulky military stuff and dropping out at a checkpoint due to dehydration..... then suing the GOV....

OldGoat Nov 5, 2013 4:12 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21733801)
Why buy armor for every TSO? Do like commercial operators do: have a supply of armor (with the wars winding down, DHS should be able to get it from the military) and let TSOs who want to check it out at the beginning of shift and return it at the end of shift.

If the airport is so dangerous that TSOs need body armor, passengers need it as well.

DeafBlonde Nov 5, 2013 4:31 pm


Originally Posted by OldGoat (Post 21734118)
If the airport is so dangerous that TSOs need body armor, passengers need it as well.

^+100
BINGO!!! We have a winner!!!


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