CPT Trips

So the initial test was a false positive . . . wonder why the don't report these on the blog?

txrus

The lesson here is that you never allow something like this w/o first insisting the screener change his gloves, out of the box, get a new swab, out of the box, & then test the gloves. Then the screener has to swab & test the filthy bin(s) you have just been handling. THEN & only then do you allow the screener to touch your hands. Just like everything else w/the TSA, these swabs have a very very high false+ rate & are essentially worthless.

SeriouslyLost

OK, that part I would disagree with. Sort of. The testing machines are very good, but only when they're used properly. That's where (no surprises!) TSA falls down. They don't maintain the machines. They don't conduct the tests properly. They don't train the staff to use the machines or apply a proper procedure. But the machines themselves: there's nothing wrong with them in principal as far as I'm concerned.

SiberianTiger

I am not happy with TSA performance...it is a huge waste of $$

cbn42

No offense, but stats doesn't appear to be your strong suit either. In fact, this statement couldn't be more incorrect. The validity of the results has very little to do with the sample size, and everything to do with the selection process. I could stand outside a Catholic church in Alabama and poll people and then claim that 98% of the American public wants a complete ban on abortion, but my results would not be statistically valid no matter how many responses I have.

Loren Pechtel

You've got a statistics problem here. The problem is that groups like ours do not match up with the population at large. While the survey will return reasonably valid results for our group that doesn't mean they're valid for the population at large.

Lets say you conduct two surveys asking the same question: "Does your house have air conditioning?"

Conduct one survey in Phoenix, Arizona. Conduct the other in an Eskimo village. See the difference?

Loren Pechtel

Huh? Since when is the TSA taking batteries?

You can't have loose lithium batteries but in a pack isn't loose. Nor are batteries with covers properly fitted to them.

Loren Pechtel

Much needed?

The old-style security was useful. These days I think the true security level has gone *DOWN*.

MRDNET

TSA check points usually provide a bit of entertainment for me. On one occasion the lady next to me did not have her cosmetics in ZIPLOK bag and the TSA agent was really yelling at her - I carry a roll of ZIPLOK bags because on my job I have to bag broken parts. I handed her a ZIPLOK bag. The TSA agent went nuts and started screaming at me. The lady tried to give me the bag back and I told her he is just mad because we neutralized his problem with you. At this point I was laughing at the TSA agent. He screamed, "SUPERVISOR!". When the supervisor came over, the TSA agent explained the lady did not have a ZIPLOK bag and this guy gave her one. Supervisor said problem solved. By this time everyone around was having a good chuckle. See, TSA is usually good entertainment. I go through TSA with a smile on my face and a song in my heart; they seldom fail to entertain.

SeriouslyLost

I didn't realize that FT had exclusionary dogma. Although now that I think about it...

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree on the group sampled: FT is broadly representative of the population at large. Realistically, all FT samples/biases for, is people that travel. That's hardly skewing the results when the survey is about TSA, is it?

Now, I'm not saying that the survey will be or is well formed for validity or that 500 is the magical number for it in this instance. I wouldn't know one way or the other on that front. But I am saying that I think FT, as a group, should be a valid sample group and, assuming the response reaches ~500 & the survey is well-formed, then the results should be statistically valid as a statement for the general population.

cbn42

There is no way FT can be seen as representative of the population at large. The average American flies once a year or less. The average FTer flies several times more than that. Since frequency of contact is likely to affect one's perceptions of the TSA, this will bias the sample significantly.

FT really isn't even representative of "people that travel". FT is representative of people who travel very frequently. Once again, people who travel once a year (the majority of people) and people who travel a few times a month (people on FT) are likely to have very different views of the TSA.

No survey is valid as a statement for the general population unless it selected people at random from the general population.

And where did you get the ~500 number from? It seems like you pulled it out of thin air. You can't do that in statistics.

jkhuggins

And now we get to one of the key issues here: how should a "fair" sample be defined for such a survey?

Do we want to sample just based on population numbers (e.g. 100 zillion people flew last year, let's get X% of them to complete the survey), or based on flights taken (e.g. 300 zillion tickets were purchased last year, let's ask Y% of the purchasers to complete the survey)? The latter will generate far more frequent fliers than the former ... but wouldn't frequent flyers be more knowledgeable about airline travel and thereby give you better answers?

Survey design is hard.

rust1d

TSA in JFK back in Feb was decent for me on my flight to Warsaw. Coming back, the workers in the WAW airport went though my bag and opened my brand new 3DS I brought to try and sell there.

hamburgoflyer

Sorry if this is slightly off-topic, but isn't there supposed to be some
shuttle that gets you from "sterile" T3 to "sterile" T5 and back (i.e.
when connecting from AA to BA and vice versa) circumventing the
whole security theatre you describe ?

Spiff

You are completely wrong. I'd travel even more if TSA were tossed out into the street or into prison where they belong.

The security of airlines and airports should be 100% the purview of the airlines and the airports. The federal government should have no say in the matter and should be physically ejected from all US airports.