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-   -   Chewbacca vs the TSA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1474245-chewbacca-vs-tsa.html)

SeriouslyLost Jun 24, 2013 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 20981547)
Actually, I'm going to disagree with you on that point.

But of course. Be my guest. :)


First, blunt force trauma can be inflicted with a fairly minimal swing. Straight up and down with a heavy, solid object, a person could inflict serious, possibly fatal damage, in just the length of their arm; so, in an aircraft cabin, just raising your arm up to ceiling height is enough swing space.
Raising your arm to the ceiling of the average plane is not within the range for the average adult. As in, they won't have enough room to do it. Long, thin objects require space in order to build up speed and, thereby, energy. Unless the person wielding it really knows what they're doing. :)



Second, lucite is not one of those fragile, brittle plastics like those used in child's toys.
Actually, yes, Lucite is quite brittle unless extra stuff is added. No doubt such stuff is used in this instance, given its use, but that may or may not include an ability to "load" it with lateral impact energy. Lucite is seldom a good choice for that task.



A solid lucite rod of that size actually would be every bit as effective a weapon as a solid oak rod of the same dimensions.
On that I have a little experience and I'm going to disagree with you. Oak, whether red or Japanese white, is a very different beastie from lucite. Oak has flex and density, two things that lucite is missing.



The issue, for me, is not whether the cane could be used as a weapon, since it clearly could, but whether it poses any greater danger than any of the other millions of wooden and metal canes which are permitted on aircraft by TSA without any further examination or determination necessary.
Indeed.

WilcoRoger Jun 25, 2013 2:20 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 20981547)
From the photos, I'd guess that the cane is 1.5"-2" in diameter and about 3'-4' long (around 4-5cm x 92-122cm). A solid lucite rod of that size actually would be every bit as effective a weapon as a solid oak rod of the same dimensions.

I had to look up that Lucite is actually just plain PMMA.

PMMA's density is below 1,20 g/ccm. The dimensions you gave would make the cane less than 2400 ccm, ie. below 3 kg (that's below 6,5 pounds for Americans) - and that's at the upper estimate levels.

SeriouslyLost Jun 25, 2013 5:22 pm


Originally Posted by WilcoRoger (Post 20988230)
I had to look up that Lucite is actually just plain PMMA.

PMMA's density is below 1,20 g/ccm. The dimensions you gave would make the cane less than 2400 ccm, ie. below 3 kg (that's below 6,5 pounds for Americans) - and that's at the upper estimate levels.

Yup. Good for a cane, but lousy in that form as a weapon to hit people with. Nice bit of Japanese White Oak, however, would be rather more dangerous. :)

ScatterX Jun 27, 2013 2:35 pm


Originally Posted by SeriouslyLost (Post 20989540)
Yup. Good for a cane, but lousy in that form as a weapon...

My 2.7 cents on this...

1) If it is strong enough to be a cane for a giant person, it could cause significant damage if it could be effectively used as a weapon. See #3.

2) Everything can be used as a weapon. Paper cuts can be lethal.

3) Stick-like weapons inside confined spaces (in all close quarters situations, actually) are almost always LESS EFFECTIVE once they get outside a certain length. Too short is ineffective. Too long is much much less effective. There is a reason that asps, batons, billy clubs, truncheons, and similar are all about the same length. There is a reason the Romans carried swords along with spears (hint: once the enemy was up close, the spear doesn't work so good). This effective length is no where near the length necessary for a really tall person to use as a cane.

4) Light-sabers are no more of a weapon than a soccer ball painted to look like the death star. Only a complete idiot would be afraid of either of these fictional items causing actual "movie-like" damage.

5) TSA's position in this case is idiotic. See #4.

ScatterX Jun 27, 2013 2:47 pm


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 20979024)
...[this is] a blatant attempt at theft under color of authority, poorly disguised as a security measure.

My thoughts exactly.

Canes go through security all the time. So what's really so special about this cane other than the obvious that it's worth stealing?

:confused:

chollie Jun 27, 2013 3:20 pm


Originally Posted by ScatterX (Post 21001415)
My 2.7 cents on this...

1) If it is strong enough to be a cane for a giant person, it could cause significant damage if it could be effectively used as a weapon. See #3.

2) Everything can be used as a weapon. Paper cuts can be lethal.

3) Stick-like weapons inside confined spaces (in all close quarters situations, actually) are almost always LESS EFFECTIVE once they get outside a certain length. Too short is ineffective. Too long is much much less effective. There is a reason that asps, batons, billy clubs, truncheons, and similar are all about the same length. There is a reason the Romans carried swords along with spears (hint: once the enemy was up close, the spear doesn't work so good). This effective length is no where near the length necessary for a really tall person to use as a cane.

4) Light-sabers are no more of a weapon than a soccer ball painted to look like the death star. Only a complete idiot would be afraid of either of these fictional items causing actual "movie-like" damage.

5) TSA's position in this case is idiotic. See #4.

I wonder if we'll see a day when toy drones (non-functional) are banned? After all, some drones carry WMDs...

A kid will be able to carry an unarmed GI Joe toy, but he'll have to give up an armed GI Joe or a toy drone...and if he's a civil war buff, probably a good idea to leave the 1-inch plastic cannon at home, too.

ScatterX Jun 27, 2013 4:04 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 21001696)
I wonder if we'll see a day when toy drones (non-functional) are banned? After all, some drones carry WMDs...

LOL. Let's ban paper airplanes too; they could be confused with the real thing. :rolleyes:

The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
- Albert Einstein


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