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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Chewbacca vs the TSA (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1474245-chewbacca-vs-tsa.html)

exbayern Jun 21, 2013 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 20967251)
To all that are asking, and I alluded to this first a while back. If you come into the check point with a baseball bat and say it is a cane, you are not going to be allowed to take it to the gate with you. TSA does not confiscate anything. You just can not take it with you. You have the option to take it back to the ticket counter and check it in. You have the option to surrender the item and then it is disposed of by TSA as being abandoned. Call it what you want but that is the way that it is.

But he DIDN'T come to the checkpoint with a bat, or a club. He came with a medical assistive device. Large man = large cane. That's how it works, and the reason why canes and crutches come in various sizes.

I don't know who this man is, and I've never seen the films. The fact that he is famous is a moot point. The only issue here is that the TSA prohibited someone from bringing their medical assistive device with them, thereby rendering that passenger unable to move about.

TSA does not confiscate anything. You just can not take it with you. You have the option to take it back to the ticket counter and check it in. You have the option to surrender the item and then it is disposed of by TSA as being abandoned
That is semantics. If you take a cane away from someone who needs it to walk, how do you expect them to get to their destination, and move about AT their destination? And sending people from a TSA checkpoint to the check in counter to check an item is frankly not a solution. Most queues at US airports are so long that the passenger would miss their flight. (It's not like at TXL, or MUC, where they routinely offer that solution, as there five minutes is considered a long wait)

It's just one more in a long string of episodes of TSA seperating passengers from their medical devices, or denying them travel due to those devices.


Originally Posted by WillCAD (Post 20967331)
You haven't answered any of my questions. But if you're not ignoring them, perhaps you didn't notice them in the flurry of posts above, so let me repeat them:

Don't feel bad; my questions were not answered either.

Wally Bird Jun 21, 2013 8:29 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 20967251)
Call it what you want but that is the way that it is.

I do. Confiscation.

Spiff Jun 21, 2013 8:54 pm


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 20967908)
I do. Confiscation.

Theft.

ScatterX Jun 22, 2013 8:18 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 20967908)
Confiscation.


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 20967998)
Theft.

Theft, waste, fraud, and ABUSE.


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20967863)
It's just one more in a long string of episodes of TSA seperating passengers from their medical devices, or denying them travel due to those devices.

It's worse than that. It's another example of TSA taking away items that ARE NOT A THREAT. The fact that it's a medically necessary device just makes this episode more stupider.


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20967863)
Don't feel bad; my questions were not answered either.

And neither were mine.

ND Sol Jun 22, 2013 9:44 am


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 20967251)
To all that are asking, and I alluded to this first a while back. If you come into the check point with a baseball bat and say it is a cane, you are not going to be allowed to take it to the gate with you. TSA does not confiscate anything. You just can not take it with you. You have the option to take it back to the ticket counter and check it in. You have the option to surrender the item and then it is disposed of by TSA as being abandoned. Call it what you want but that is the way that it is.

[emphasis added]

What is bolded is untrue. Let me give you but one example since it involved your fellow employees at your airport. My copy of the Screening Management SOP was confiscated and though I have written to your Regulatory Inspections office in Aurora twice about the authority to confiscate, no reply to that issue has been forthcoming. And my FOIA request filed well over a year ago has yet to be answered.

Do you believe the confiscation to be legal or do you believe it just didn't happen? Feel free to talk to the bishop if you don't believe me. That would be a mark for assessment as to that fact. ;)

chollie Jun 22, 2013 10:10 am

eyecue, on more than one occasion at more than one airport, I have had a TSO pull an item out of my bag, say it's not allowed, and immediately throw it in a bin.

Regardless of what the item is, I though it was my choice to leave the checkpoint to dispose of any prohibited item as I see fit. When I forgot about my Leatherman micro-tool, the TSO screener had set it aside. He acted incredulous when I said I wanted to leave security to take care of it. After the bla-bla warning me I'd have to finish a full bag check (suddenly required), wait (?!) to be escorted from the checkpoint, then wait in line again for another screening, he finally did all that, gave the Leatherman back, and eventually another TSO (with a supervisor) showed up to interrogate me about what was happening and why, then escorted me back out.

I took the Leatherman micro-tool to the nearest bathroom and threw it in the garbage. Just on principle, that Leatherman was not going to end up in a TSOs pocket or a TSO Ebay sale.

BTW...how does that work at your airport? It is clear from the TSO sales of multi-tools on Ebay that TSA doesn't just throw everything in one trash bin. Do they set desirable items aside at the checkpoint? I can't see them rummaging amongst water and shampoo and baby formula bottles looking for the goodies that will be auctioned off.

Is the sorting and handling of such materials SSI?

petaluma1 Jun 23, 2013 6:51 am

Definition of the word "Confiscate"
 
con·fis·cate (knf-skt)

tr.v. con·fis·cat·ed, con·fis·cat·ing, con·fis·cates

1. To seize (private property) for the public treasury.
2. To seize by or as if by authority.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/confiscate

halls120 Jun 23, 2013 7:29 am


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 20967251)
To all that are asking, and I alluded to this first a while back. If you come into the check point with a baseball bat and say it is a cane, you are not going to be allowed to take it to the gate with you. TSA does not confiscate anything. You just can not take it with you. You have the option to take it back to the ticket counter and check it in. You have the option to surrender the item and then it is disposed of by TSA as being abandoned. Call it what you want but that is the way that it is.

We aren't talking about a baseball bat. We're talking about a decorative cane.

Your attempt to rationalize TSA behavior is simply indefensible. My government-issued laptop is heavy enough to bludgeon someone, yet it passes muster very time.

Do you really believe the garbage that passes for TSA policy?

WillCAD Jun 23, 2013 10:49 am


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20948582)
(I will now admit that I have no idea who he is)

Outside of Star Wars fandom, most people have never heard of Peter Mayhew.

He is a 7'-2" actor who played the character Chewbacca in the original Star Wars trilogy. Chewbacca was the tall, furry, bear-like character who was Han Solo's (Harrison Ford's) best friend and copilot.

Here's a then-and-now pic of the two characters from the first movie, and the two actors appearing at what looks to be a charity event for St Jude's Children's Research Hospital, probably in 2010:
http://www.thenandnowphotos.com/wp-c...1870995-23.jpg

As you can see, the cane in question is in Peter's hands in this photo. That cane has become somewhat famous in Star Wars fan circles, because, let's face it, if you're a Star Wars fan, there is no cooler cane in the universe than a lightsaber.

On another note, when I Googled to find a pic of Chewbacca for this post, I found that it's possible to buy brown furry coats, hoodies, bathrobes, and even Adidas shoes that are designed to make one look like Chewbacca.

Everybody loves Chewie, I guess. Maybe it's his infectious laugh. Rawr! Woof-woof-woof.

chollie Jun 23, 2013 10:53 am


Originally Posted by halls120 (Post 20974351)
We aren't talking about a baseball bat. We're talking about a decorative cane.

Your attempt to rationalize TSA behavior is simply indefensible. My government-issued laptop is heavy enough to bludgeon someone, yet it passes muster very time.

Do you really believe the garbage that passes for TSA policy?

I understand weight/dimension limitations (whether or not I agree with them is another matter, of course).

I don't understand limitations that are not published, particularly when we are talking about a medical 'assistive' device. What earthly reason could there be for keeping such information secret?

It's as ridiculous as saying limited quantities of LGAs are allowed on board, but not publishing what those quantities are.

eyecue, I'm not blaming you, I know you don't make the rules, but surely even you can see how ridiculous it is. How would you feel if a cop pulled you over for exceeding an unposted, undocumented speed limit?

exbayern Jun 23, 2013 11:49 am

Thanks WillCad.

So it would as if André Roussimoff had shown up at a TSA checkpoint and was expected to use a cane appropriate for the size of someone 1/2 a metre shorter than him. (That wouldn't have happened here at the checkpoint as France has expedited screening for those with physical and mental impairments, and from my experience security is even more polite and helpful to those in that queue)

Again, eyecue, canes and crutches need to be appropriately sized for the individual to avoid other physical damage. That should be obvious to most people. Tall man = tall cane.

CPT Trips Jun 23, 2013 12:52 pm


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20975345)
Thanks WillCad.

So it would as if André Roussimoff had shown up at a TSA checkpoint and was expected to use a cane appropriate for the size of someone 1/2 a metre shorter than him. (That wouldn't have happened here at the checkpoint as France has expedited screening for those with physical and mental impairments, and from my experience security is even more polite and helpful to those in that queue)

Again, eyecue, canes and crutches need to be appropriately sized for the individual to avoid other physical damage. That should be obvious to most people. Tall man = tall cane.

I'll bet his cane would need to be a heck of a lot heavier . . .

exbayern Jun 23, 2013 12:54 pm


Originally Posted by CPT Trips (Post 20975644)
I'll bet his cane would need to be a heck of a lot heavier . . .

That would be the logical conclusion, wouldn't it? If it is logic, then why can the TSA not come to the same conclusion?

Oh, wait...

RadioGirl Jun 23, 2013 2:17 pm


Originally Posted by exbayern (Post 20975345)
Again, eyecue, canes and crutches need to be appropriately sized for the individual to avoid other physical damage. That should be obvious to most people. Tall man = tall cane.

And at the risk of, erm, beating this point to death (;)) that was exactly what he said in his tweet, as reported in the OP. News article:

Originally Posted by Peter Mayhew
“Won’t allow me through the airport with me cane! Giant man need giant cane. Small cane snap like toothpick. Besides, my lightsaber is just cool. I’d miss it.”


halls120 Jun 23, 2013 3:16 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 20975100)

eyecue, I'm not blaming you, I know you don't make the rules, but surely even you can see how ridiculous it is. How would you feel if a cop pulled you over for exceeding an unposted, undocumented speed limit?

Like many TSA apologists, Eyecue is apparently unable to admit TSA stupidity that is apparent to everyone else.


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