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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   Is that an IED in your pocket, or... (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1445966-ied-your-pocket.html)

Himeno Mar 8, 2013 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 20384482)
A machine that "works but breaks often" does not work, period. And if it "breaks often", I suspect that the problem is a fundamental one that won't be solved by a "tweak".

The puffer machines do work, and work quite well at CN Tower. The problem was that TSA couldn't be bothered to replace the filters as needed.

chollie Mar 8, 2013 7:01 pm

Interesting that the TSOs did catch a fake IED planted inside a child's doll with wires sticking out.

If there had been no wires, would TSA have spotted it? Or pulled the bag for a check? How extensive would such a check have been? (Some dolls have legitimate gadgetry inside).

Hope this doesn't set off a renewed emphasis on below-the-belt hands-on activity at EWR.

CavePearl Mar 8, 2013 7:10 pm


Originally Posted by jkhuggins (Post 20384482)
All the tester has to do is declare that he's a voluntary opt-out, and he gets the WTMD plus the full-body patdown. Easy enough to arrange.

Actually in my last 50 or so trips through security and "voluntarily" opting out I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone through the WTMD. I am almost always escorted around it and walked through the gate.

chollie Mar 8, 2013 7:21 pm


Originally Posted by CavePearl (Post 20387145)
Actually in my last 50 or so trips through security and "voluntarily" opting out I can count on one hand the number of times I've gone through the WTMD. I am almost always escorted around it and walked through the gate.

I've never been sent through the WTMD or asked to walk through the NoS for my grope.

Ysitincoach Mar 8, 2013 7:33 pm


Originally Posted by CavePearl (Post 20382703)
I think the real purpose from tests like this are so TSA can justify mandatory AIT participation, and implement a no opt-out policy. :rolleyes:

Agreed, additionally, this is a convenient release time for TSA to deflect negative attention on their reneging on the small knife blade size restrictions.

This is a win-win for the bureaucrats in Arlington...create fear of a need for 100% NoS, get Congress to throw more money and more people at the agency, and take advantage of a news media too dumb to know they've just been had.

I want to see the checkpoint CCTV. I want to see for myself if this was an opt-out, and how thorough the pat-down was--if it even happened at all in the first place. This could be the greatest hoax to convince the convinceable to allow full-time 100% NoS.

chollie Mar 8, 2013 8:42 pm

Actually, now that I think about it, the exclusive source is the NY Post, not the most reliable source.

This could be a complete fabrication. Someone with more knowledge than I have would have to weigh in on how big an IED is likely to be and how easily it could be concealed in man's pants and whether or not it can be completely/almost completely non-metallic.

jkhuggins Mar 8, 2013 9:50 pm


Originally Posted by Himeno (Post 20386794)
The puffer machines do work, and work quite well at CN Tower. The problem was that TSA couldn't be bothered to replace the filters as needed.

Then I'll rephrase. The machines don't meet TSA's needs, since it's apparently an operational requirement that the machines not require frequent filter changes. And, again, a simple "tweak" won't fix it.

Ysitincoach Mar 8, 2013 9:50 pm


Originally Posted by chollie (Post 20387487)
Actually, now that I think about it, the exclusive source is the NY Post, not the most reliable source.

This could be a complete fabrication. Someone with more knowledge than I have would have to weigh in on how big an IED is likely to be and how easily it could be concealed in man's pants and whether or not it can be completely/almost completely non-metallic.

It also reads like they're quoting a source on the condition of anonymity.

chollie Mar 8, 2013 10:11 pm


Originally Posted by Ysitincoach (Post 20387710)
It also reads like they're quoting a source on the condition of anonymity.

But they'd also do that if they were fabricating the story.

I've been told that the NYPost is about as reliable (or less so) the the National Enquirer.

It'll be interesting to see if Blogdad Bob comments on this, although he's not much more reliable than the Post or the Enquirer, IMHO.

OldGoat Mar 9, 2013 5:54 am


Originally Posted by Ysitincoach (Post 20387242)

Agreed, additionally, this is a convenient release time for TSA to deflect negative attention on their reneging on the small knife blade size restrictions.

Excellent observation. One if the reasons given for lifting the knife blade restrictions was to focus the TSOs on bombs. This event, fortuitous or not, supports that narrative.

thelark Mar 9, 2013 6:57 am

I'll bet they caught every water bottle

Houston.Business Mar 9, 2013 2:05 pm

Guess what got past TSA
 
Way to go guys;

http://www.businessinsider.com/tsa-a...airport-2013-3

http://www.newsmax.com/US/undercover...3/08/id/493819

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/newa...-bomb-18682218

Spiff Mar 9, 2013 2:13 pm

Doubtless this incident will result in an increase in the frequency and severity of sexual assaults this disgusting agency commits, rather than increased use of ETD or re-introduction of ETP.

N830MH Mar 9, 2013 3:20 pm

Remember her boyfriend who sneaks past at TSA checkpoint back in early January 2010. Remember this??? He was charges with criminal trespassing. That's why he got a security breached at EWR terminal C, and everyone were evacuated from the entire terminal.

golfguy714 Mar 9, 2013 5:18 pm

A machine that "works but breaks often" does not work, period. And if it "breaks often", I suspect that the problem is a fundamental one that won't be solved by a "tweak".[/QUOTE]

I would disagree that they don't work. I work in the nuke power industry and I have seen them work up close and personal. I have seen the puffers detect shot gun shells in someone's coat pocket. I have also seen security testing the machines after some of my guys calibrated them and they did detect the contraband materials. Now on a large scale, there may be issues, but they do work with several thousand people a day going through them. You will not enter the protected area of any US nuke plant without going through a puffer of some kind.


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