Real ID

Old Dec 21, 12, 3:26 pm
  #1  
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Real ID

I am real confused about TSA's Real ID law. (This law requires states to issue a more secure driver licenses by Jan 15, 2013, and that older licenses will not be accepted as Federal ID.) Does this mean that those of us with older driver licenses will not be allowed to clear TSA after Jan 15, if our state has not complied with this law? I apologize if this topic has it's own threads already. I searched but couldn't find any.
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Old Dec 21, 12, 3:41 pm
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It was most recently I believe covered in this thread

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...ic-travel.html

But yes, you are right, unless they make some changes the current implementation is:

The state compliance date is Jan. 15, 2013. Under current federal regulations, a DL or ID card issued by a state that is not compliant by this date may not be accepted for federal official purposes. Federal “official purposes” are defined as boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, accessing federal facilities that require identification to enter, and entering nuclear power plants.

The first individual compliance date is Dec. 1, 2014. On and after this date, a person born after Dec. 1, 1964, (younger than age 50 on Dec. 1, 2014) must have a DL or ID card that is marked as being compliant with the REAL ID Act to use it for federal official purposes.

The second individual compliance date is Dec. 1, 2017. On and after this date, a person born on or before Dec. 1, 1964, (age 50 or older on Dec. 1, 2014) must have a DL or ID card that is marked as being compliant with the REAL ID Act to use it for federal official purposes.


Gonna be interesting, to say the least, in a few weeks if it holds.
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Old Dec 24, 12, 8:18 am
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I'm 52, this makes me feel like an old f--t. If I have an Enhanced Driver's License, it is safe to assume it is already Real-ID compliant?

I know that id-chief.ph is now down, but it was interesting to see how good their fake U.S. driver's licenses were. Apparently, they never got the hidden micro-print on the back of U.S. licenses right, but they got the mag strip and the holograms down perfectly.

Last edited by Dubai Stu; Dec 24, 12 at 8:38 am
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Old Dec 24, 12, 4:00 pm
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Originally Posted by Dubai Stu View Post
I'm 52, this makes me feel like an old f--t. If I have an Enhanced Driver's License, it is safe to assume it is already Real-ID compliant?
Yes.
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Old Dec 24, 12, 7:23 pm
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Ari
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I don't think DHS has the political balls to impliment REAL ID across the board; maybe TSA will do something passive-agressive like require a "REAL ID" for PreCheck.
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Old Dec 25, 12, 4:16 pm
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
I don't think DHS has the political balls to impliment REAL ID across the board; maybe TSA will do something passive-agressive like require a "REAL ID" for PreCheck.
Given the way the Administration (and Attorney General) have been playing smashmouth hardball with some other things, I would not put it past them to implement Real ID. Especially if the biggest effect is on R states.
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Old Dec 25, 12, 7:03 pm
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From the DHS

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2012/12/20/d...l-id-standards

The first few paragraphs, but if you don't want to read it, they are deferring enforcement for the 37 non complaint states

WASHINGTON— On December 20, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) determined that thirteen states have met the standards of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (“Act”) for driver’s licenses and identification cards and has granted a temporary deferment for all other states and territories.

Currently, DHS has determined that Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Indiana, Maryland, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming have met the Act’s requirements. The Department commends these states on the substantial progress in working toward these goals and the improvements in security for state-issued driver’s licenses and identification cards since 9/11.

Other states have not provided sufficient information, at this time, for DHS to determine if they meet the Act’s requirements. These states will have an opportunity to respond with additional information before DHS makes a final determination. DHS will continue to receive and review state submissions on a rolling basis.

Beginning January 15, 2013, those states not found to meet the standards will receive a temporary deferment that will allow Federal agencies to continue to accept their licenses and identification cards for boarding commercial aircraft and other official purposes.


So I don't think there's any need to worry for a while.
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Old Dec 26, 12, 7:09 am
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Originally Posted by cordelli View Post
From the DHS

http://www.dhs.gov/news/2012/12/20/d...l-id-standards

The first few paragraphs, but if you don't want to read it, they are deferring enforcement for the 37 non complaint states

WASHINGTON— On December 20, 2012, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) determined that thirteen states have met the standards of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (“Act”) for driver’s licenses and identification cards and has granted a temporary deferment for all other states and territories.

Currently, DHS has determined that Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Iowa, Indiana, Maryland, Ohio, South Dakota, Tennessee, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming have met the Act’s requirements. The Department commends these states on the substantial progress in working toward these goals and the improvements in security for state-issued driver’s licenses and identification cards since 9/11.

Other states have not provided sufficient information, at this time, for DHS to determine if they meet the Act’s requirements. These states will have an opportunity to respond with additional information before DHS makes a final determination. DHS will continue to receive and review state submissions on a rolling basis.

Beginning January 15, 2013, those states not found to meet the standards will receive a temporary deferment that will allow Federal agencies to continue to accept their licenses and identification cards for boarding commercial aircraft and other official purposes.


So I don't think there's any need to worry for a while.
Shame on those 13 states.
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Old Dec 26, 12, 8:37 am
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My attitude about privacy is probably influenced by the fact that I am a product of private bordering schools, 1970s college dorms, etc. where there were communal showers. I've been background check (and fingerprinted) for professional licensing, Nexus, and a Dubai resident visa.

My personal data is already possessed by Governments and I have no problem dropping my drawers (based on my communal upbringing outlined above). I just want to get through security as quickly as possible and could care less about the political issues.
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Old Dec 26, 12, 9:31 am
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Many thanks cordelli for clearing this up.
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Old Dec 26, 12, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by douglowe View Post
Many thanks cordelli for clearing this up.
Don't thank me, thank the DHS. Don't want any more people saying I could have just made it up to prove a point

I will admit that it's quite confusing that the press release (dated last week on the 20th) did not get any national news attention that I saw. Granted I'm in an area that there has been only one story pretty much full time since the 21st, and the ruling does not affect us because we are complaint, but I would have expected when they released it the media would have been all over it with "The TSA Backs Down" headlines.

In searching for news about it, there were stories in some of the states that would not have been complaint, but still nothing big.
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Old Dec 27, 12, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by Ari View Post
Shame on those 13 states.
My thoughts exactly.

Those 13 states have put their own citizens into a materially worse position by doing the things DHS wants the states to do to get commended for "REAL ID" implementation.

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 16, 19 at 8:32 am
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Old Dec 27, 12, 9:00 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
My thoughts exactly.

Those 13 states have put their own citizens into a materially worse position by doing the things DHS wants the states to do to get commended for "REAL ID" implementation.
Yeah, it really sucks to actually verify people's address before issuing them an official piece of ID, or actually verify their citizenship.

It's something they should have been doing all along instead of just handing out licenses to anybody who asked for one without verifying anything.
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Old Dec 27, 12, 10:02 am
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Originally Posted by cordelli View Post
Yeah, it really sucks to actually verify people's address before issuing them an official piece of ID, or actually verify their citizenship.
It's not merely address verification for state photo ID that has resulted in making US citizens of these 13 states materially worse off; for address verification, some mail to one's home is easy enough to get. The other demands put on citizens of these states -- for even renewing ID -- have made them materially worse off.

It's not even merely US citizenship verification that has resulted in making US citizens of these 13 states materially worse off as a result of this Sensenbrenner act that gave the country "REAL ID". These US citizens have been voting as US citizens and not subject to criminal prosecution and conviction because they are recognized as US citizens as is their due right as US citizens.

... and yet they are materially worse off because of this REAL ID Act.

The REAL ID Act has made people materially worse off, including those who have met all of the following conditions: (a) long histories of being licensed to drive in the US; and (b) their citizenship status and local address not in doubt; and (c) who have no criminal history. Yet these innocents are being made to pay a price for this REAL ID Act that DHS loves and which you may fancy. I don't fancy it because I have seen US citizens being put in a position to have to pay up hundreds of dollars or risk being de-recognized as state residents despite being state residents under reasonable definitions that have long been used by the state and/or federal governments.

Originally Posted by cordelli
It's something they should have been doing all along instead of just handing out licenses to anybody who asked for one without verifying anything.
A driving license is proof of being issued a license to drive under some conditions. To get such license or other state photo ID in the US has, for the entirety of your lifetime, involved verification of something. To get such a license or other state photo ID in the US just hasn't as often involved making people as materially worse off as has come to be the case with these 13 states implementing REAL ID because this REAL ID game ramps up the headaches/hassles for individual US citizens and for the states that come with a real cost.

Thankfully, at least some in the judiciary squashed some photo ID requriements for voting in 2012 as the REAL ID implementation was disenfranching US citizens from voting, many of whom were the very citizens who couldn't even cheaply get their state photo ID renewed despite having been decades-long resident US citizens with state-issued licenses/ID that had been verified before for one or more purposes, one or more times. [Disenfranchising US citizens hasn't exactly been considered a negative thing by all people who have voted for some of Sensenbrenner's fans.] It's unfortunate the judiciary doesn't squash Sensenbrenner's REAL ID act, as the practical outcome would be DHS would stop wasting resources on this dog and pony show that comes with making the states underpaid henchmen in some kind of Big Brotheresque control game that makes the citizens of the states materially worse off too. The next best thing to a judicial squashing or Congressional revocation of REAL ID is for states not to seek to be commended by DHS for REAL ID Act implementation. [I understand that some fans of Sensenbrenner's fans would consider that a negative thing -- I consider it a positive.]

With regard to the many states which did not get a DHS commendation for REAL ID Act, I applaud them for not getting in on the REAL ID Act act and not getting this commendation from DHS.

.... if only those 13 states given a DHS commendation for this would fall off the DHS applause list, then they too would get my applause for the same.

Last edited by TWA884; Jun 16, 19 at 8:30 am
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Old Dec 27, 12, 8:47 pm
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To obtain a passport, one does NOT need a verifiable address, the mailing address you supply is where they send it (which could be a PO Box)--there is a place on the form where you supply your physical address (but this is NOT checked). [On the actual PP, there is an area where you can pencil in your address--and so can be changed infinitely often...]
Since TSA will accept a passport as a form of ID, why is Real ID that much better, if you won't use it to go through security?
[Side note: when I applied for GE, as usual, I listed my PO Box as my mailing address, and did supply my physical address (as is requested on the form). I have very few documents which list my physical address--my lease and rent bill do--I brought these to the interview, but the agent did not request to see either of them.]
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