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Old Nov 20, 12, 11:58 am   #1
 
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Passports now required for domestic travel??

Just heard this from a well traveled friend who lives in NM....

> New Mexico is one of a handful of states that does not require all the
> things other states do to get a driver's license. Therefore, beginning
> January 1st, we can no longer fly without passports, even on domestic
> flights.
>
> Sigh.

REALLY???

What's going to happen to someone who might never have obtained a passport and never bothered to get one because they had no expectation of international travel who might suddenly need to fly to the bed-side of a dying family member or some such scenario? Is there no recourse for anyone who does not possess a passport for whatever reason?

Gosh I hope this regulation soon to be enacted (should this really be true) is challenged in a federal court!
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Old Nov 20, 12, 12:10 pm   #2
 
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A quick scan of the web shows several recent articles so evidently this is true. This country is getting more ridiculous by the day.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 12:11 pm   #3
 
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Is today April 1?

Seriously, your friend has to be pulling your leg.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 12:36 pm   #4
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Probably something with RealID, although IIRC, there was a fair amount of pushback and the federal government, to save face, kept 'extending' the deadline. IIRC, it got pretty close to deadline once, and the feds allowed states to extend as long as they 'pledged' to work on it. For states that balked at the unfunded nature of the mandate, now is not the best time to crack down -if they didn't have the money prior to the economy going sour, they're sure not going to find it now.

The RealID's were going to cost more to produce, states didn't have the money, feds weren't going to give it to them. The feds held out the threat that after a certain date, if a pax didn't have a valid RealID (DL or state ID), then he/she would have to have an alternate 'government' ID to fly - for non-military folks, that probably would mean a passport.

I live in a RealID state. Last I knew, they offer both forms of DL/state ID, although I think the RealId is more expensive.

OP, if your only concern is possible emergency flights, not regular or even infrequent planned travel, don't worry. You can still go through the checkpoint without valid ID, although it's a bit of a hassle and takes a bit longer. You won't be the only one in NM with this issue.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 12:40 pm   #5
 
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Originally Posted by STBCypriot View Post
Is today April 1?

Seriously, your friend has to be pulling your leg.
Not this woman, she's not the sort of person that would do something like that... seriously! and she is usually very well informed. She has her passport "in order", as it were.

I have ~another~ friend in NM who may not have a current passport, depending upon the last time she traveled internationally... her passport may now be expired. Due to a recent death, she is traveling back and forth to LA to help settle affairs and can ill afford another expense at this time or any other.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 12:52 pm   #6
 
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Probably something with RealID, although IIRC, there was a fair amount of pushback and the federal government, to save face, kept 'extending' the deadline. IIRC, it got pretty close to deadline once, and the feds allowed states to extend as long as they 'pledged' to work on it. For states that balked at the unfunded nature of the mandate, now is not the best time to crack down -if they didn't have the money prior to the economy going sour, they're sure not going to find it now.

The RealID's were going to cost more to produce, states didn't have the money, feds weren't going to give it to them. The feds held out the threat that after a certain date, if a pax didn't have a valid RealID (DL or state ID), then he/she would have to have an alternate 'government' ID to fly - for non-military folks, that probably would mean a passport.

I live in a RealID state. Last I knew, they offer both forms of DL/state ID, although I think the RealId is more expensive.

OP, if your only concern is possible emergency flights, not regular or even infrequent planned travel, don't worry. You can still go through the checkpoint without valid ID, although it's a bit of a hassle and takes a bit longer. You won't be the only one in NM with this issue.
So it is only if this rule is enforced by this deadline that this becomes an issue... Are there any acceptable ids sans passport in a state without realid? Will anyone who cannot afford or has not acquired a passport simply have to endure the hassle and extra time required in order to board a domestic flight?? Any what of the error ridden databases containing the information used to confirm id at the airport when id is missing or inadequate? (I have experience in this matter regarding the databases) Will errors in databases such as these cause persons to not be allowed to fly some day?

OP... I am not in NM. I have two friends that are and another friend who visits family in NM.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 1:01 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loops View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chollie View Post
Probably something with RealID, although IIRC, there was a fair amount of pushback and the federal government, to save face, kept 'extending' the deadline. IIRC, it got pretty close to deadline once, and the feds allowed states to extend as long as they 'pledged' to work on it. For states that balked at the unfunded nature of the mandate, now is not the best time to crack down -if they didn't have the money prior to the economy going sour, they're sure not going to find it now.

The RealID's were going to cost more to produce, states didn't have the money, feds weren't going to give it to them. The feds held out the threat that after a certain date, if a pax didn't have a valid RealID (DL or state ID), then he/she would have to have an alternate 'government' ID to fly - for non-military folks, that probably would mean a passport.

I live in a RealID state. Last I knew, they offer both forms of DL/state ID, although I think the RealId is more expensive.

OP, if your only concern is possible emergency flights, not regular or even infrequent planned travel, don't worry. You can still go through the checkpoint without valid ID, although it's a bit of a hassle and takes a bit longer. You won't be the only one in NM with this issue.
So it is only if this rule is enforced by this deadline that this becomes an issue... Are there any acceptable ids sans passport in a state without realid? Will anyone who cannot afford or has not acquired a passport simply have to endure the hassle and extra time required in order to board a domestic flight?? Any what of the error ridden databases containing the information used to confirm id at the airport when id is missing or inadequate? (I have experience in this matter regarding the databases) Will errors in databases such as these cause persons to not be allowed to fly some day?

OP... I am not in NM. I have two friends that are and another friend who visits family in NM.
It's more than just New Mexico. Other states that are forecast to be non-compliant with RealID include Alaska, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Montana, Oklahoma, and Oregon. Drivers licenses from those states may not be accepted by TSA starting January 15, 2013.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 1:22 pm   #8
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The only other alternative to a passport is a passport card. However, airline kiosks won't read them, and airline MILAs say they are no good for air travel. However the TSA accepts passport cards.

This link gives the ACLU's take on the issue:

http://www.aclu.org/technology-and-l...tinue-be-valid
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Old Nov 20, 12, 3:29 pm   #9
 
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Originally Posted by mre5765 View Post
The only other alternative to a passport is a passport card. However, airline kiosks won't read them, and airline MILAs say they are no good for air travel. However the TSA accepts passport cards.
They should also accept GE/NEXUS cards for those who have them, right?
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Old Nov 20, 12, 3:43 pm   #10
 
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Another "sky is falling " topic debunked...whew.....
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Old Nov 20, 12, 4:18 pm   #11
 
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Originally Posted by LaserSailor View Post
Another "sky is falling " topic debunked...whew.....
What was debunked, and how? Is the prospect of another deadline extension "debunking"?

BTW, more information is here.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 4:36 pm   #12
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Originally Posted by OldGoat View Post
What was debunked, and how? Is the prospect of another deadline extension "debunking"?

BTW, more information is here.
From this link:

"Real ID is the law and is going to be enforced in January 2013. Regardless of what state you are from and when your driver’s license was issued, a valid passport or an equivalent passport card will satisfy the requirements for a Real ID. Acquisition of these documents is a routine procedure for G3′s processional passport associates. There is no excuse not to have one or both."

(bolding mine).

BTW, what the heck does 'routine procedure for G3's processional passport associates' mean?

And, further along: (again, bolding mine)

"The passport card is a great alternative to a passport or state issued compliant driver’s license and is also a good back up ID when you need one. This federal ID is a card the same size as a driver’s license or credit card, can fit your wallet and meets all the DHS standards of a Real ID. Passport cards are also a good idea for minors traveling via air inside the US, as these travelers usually don’t have any state issued, photo identification documents, as most of them aren’t eligible for driver’s license; even if they are from a state that issues compliant IDs. Passport cards provide minors and adults with an easy form of ID that meets the standards of a compliant Real ID.

Why? Currently, my understanding is that minors are not required to provide ID of any sort at the TDC.

Fiinally: (bolding mine)
"Regardless of what form of ID you have you are going to be required to show a Real ID before you board a plane."

Yep, a real thorough 'debunking'.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 5:05 pm   #13
 
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Originally Posted by chollie View Post
From this link:

"Real ID is the law and is going to be enforced in January 2013. Regardless of what state you are from and when your driverís license was issued, a valid passport or an equivalent passport card will satisfy the requirements for a Real ID. Acquisition of these documents is a routine procedure for G3′s processional passport associates. There is no excuse not to have one or both."

(bolding mine).

BTW, what the heck does 'routine procedure for G3's processional passport associates' mean?

And, further along: (again, bolding mine)

"The passport card is a great alternative to a passport or state issued compliant driverís license and is also a good back up ID when you need one. This federal ID is a card the same size as a driverís license or credit card, can fit your wallet and meets all the DHS standards of a Real ID. Passport cards are also a good idea for minors traveling via air inside the US, as these travelers usually donít have any state issued, photo identification documents, as most of them arenít eligible for driverís license; even if they are from a state that issues compliant IDs. Passport cards provide minors and adults with an easy form of ID that meets the standards of a compliant Real ID.

Why? Currently, my understanding is that minors are not required to provide ID of any sort at the TDC.

Fiinally: (bolding mine)
"Regardless of what form of ID you have you are going to be required to show a Real ID before you board a plane."

Yep, a real thorough 'debunking'.
You only responded to the article I referenced after I asked what was debunked, and how. You have yet to answer the question I posed. As far as I can tell, whether or not TSA accepts the DLs of certain states is still up to DHS, and they haven't yet spoken. The ACLU thinks RealID is dead, but that's an opinion.

So what was debunked, and how?
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Old Nov 20, 12, 5:46 pm   #14
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Originally Posted by OldGoat View Post
You only responded to the article I referenced after I asked what was debunked, and how. You have yet to answer the question I posed. As far as I can tell, whether or not TSA accepts the DLs of certain states is still up to DHS, and they haven't yet spoken. The ACLU thinks RealID is dead, but that's an opinion.

So what was debunked, and how?
Sorry, I have to get better at using the (rolled eyes/sarcasm) icon.

I think the article, particularly the parts I highlighted, makes it clear that as it stands right now, TSA/DHS hasn't shown any signs of backing off this latest deadline.

Nothing has been debunked, as far as I can tell.

If anything, I find this link unsettling, because of statements like "no excuse not to have one or both" and the strong suggestion that minors have an ID to fly (something that is not currently required). If anyone had any doubt that RealID is not intended just for flying or adults, it is intended to be an federal identity card required from childhood on, they should read your cite.
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Old Nov 20, 12, 7:05 pm   #15
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Originally Posted by OldGoat View Post
It's more than just New Mexico. Other states that are forecast to be non-compliant with RealID include Alaska, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Montana, Oklahoma, and Oregon. Drivers licenses from those states may not be accepted by TSA starting January 15, 2013.
You can add New Jersey to that list since they formally withdrew their Tru-Id program back in October as part of a settlement with the ACLU. Can you image EWR if TSA actually enforces this?
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