Some of the states are having principled people using cost as a basis to push back on the implementation.

Perhaps some of the states have some unprinicpled people using cost as a basis to get more funding for implementation, all in the hopes of getting their own pockets and/or their favorites' pockets lined with more money.

The budget situation of states and the federal government leading to slow-downs/pushback against implementation of REAL ID Act seems to be one of the few silver linings of a messed up government budget deficit and debt situation.

In Jan 2010 Nevada's governor signed an emergency executive order to comply by making driver's licenses RealID ready. It caused gridlock at DMV offices as thousands of people renewing their license had to show up with birth certificates, social security cards and utility bills to prove who they were. Many were told documents weren't any good, not original, had maiden/married names that didn't match, weren't govt stamped, etc, and had to come back more than once. Waiting times at the offices often went beyond the number of hours they were open each day and people were sent home after spending many hours in line. Typical govt boondoggle.

Surprisingly, Nevada DMV continued to push to keep up the RealID requirements while virtually every politician, citizens & business group in the state demanded its demise (aside from the governor). Public hearings brought in dozens of people testifying against the measure and not one single Nevadan in support of it. The governor's emergency order expired 120 days after it was issued after lawmakers refused to fund or discuss anything further, so we haven't been compliant since April 2010.

I hope it stays that way. I'd love to see a showdown between the state and the TSA to see who blinks first.

Not in relation to air travel. Just in general, aliens are supposed to be in possession of their immigration documents at all times (according to the Immigration and Nationality Act). I am not a lawyer, so if you think I am not correct, please provide your justification.

The question is not who blinks first. The question is whether a state has any influence over the federal government's decision not to extend any federal benefits to the state's residents because of lack of an approved ID. Apparently, the access to interstate travel is a form of a federal benefit, so it is a part of the equation. In reality, there is more at stake than just air travel.

I need not provide any justification for how DOJ operates with regard to non-citizens, with or without documents in their possession.

Here's but one of many examples where my claim about the matter gets validated and keeps in doubt claims made contrary to mine on the matter: non-US citizens who are members of certain indigenous tribes have cross-border legal presence status, cannot be lawfully deported and cannot be lawfully denied, or punished for, presence in the US. I am not going into the full litany of other situations that are of relevance to the matter.

Konig is correct with regards to LPR (green card holders). The federal law clearly states that they should have it with them at all times. I'd have to look up the laws on visas and passports though I am unaware of any with regards to passports but it has been awhile since I've seen that law.

You are correct. With regards to ID all US and Canadian recognized Indian Tribes and First Nations with cross border privies are issued ID cards by their respective tribes which are acceptable as ID in both countries (and by TSA).

Can you cite that law? I couldn't find it. My impression is that for an LPR, being "found" without a green card in your possession is just like a citizen appearing at a checkpoint without a passport. They can delay and hassle you before letting you proceed, but it's not actually a crime.

Yes, the INA clearly mentions this. I wonder how many people are actually affected though. I'd assume most Indians have other documents these days.

I doubt that one. TSA can't even get GE and Nexus cards straight, how are they going to figure out some tribal ID? It would be fun to try it out, though.

Do Indian reservations have Costco?

Indian IDs are #9 on the TSA list. Of course, Jim Bob at some small town airport where there are few Native Americans might not be used to it, but it is valid, and some can even be used to cross the CAN-US border.

As for having to always carry the Green Card, rule is on the form when they mail you the card and on the USCIS website:

FROM USCIS
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/S...8289.html]INA: Section 264
And from the mailer:
The card must be in your possession at all times. This requirement means that you are not only required to have a currently valid Form I-551 at all times, but also that you must carry your currently valid Form I-551 on your person at all times"

Including those times when you are showering/bathing, swimming?
[The "carry on your person at all times", used to apply to draft cards--I've heard of instances where people took their dc's into the shower or swimming pool.]

Perfect, that's what I was looking for. Thanks.

Let's say a person owns a horse on their own ranch in Wyoming and secures the horse so it will remain on the grounds and be readily located on the owned-and-controlled premises. This horse-owner drives from the ranch to the grocery store without the horse and the horse is neither removed nor removes itseld from the premises during the owner's relatively brief absence. Has the owner of the horse given up possession of the horse? Not in the most general legal sense, even if the owner made a legitimate sale of the horse with someone at the grocery store who couldn't arrange to pick up the horse from the ranch until say 12 months later.

The CBP has a routine practice to admit LPRs into the US even when they don't have the I-551 on-person when presenting themselves for admission into the US at the US POE.

The permanent resident will most likely be admitted without a Green Card or other documents confirming residency; however, in some instances there might be a hefty fine. In 2007, a CBP officer at Blaine crossing told me that if I intentionally did not have my GC with me, it would cost me $500 to be admitted. Of course, if a GC is lost and the transportation letter is obtained, there will not be such fee, but I-90 would need to be filed at a secondary. Even if a transportation letter is not obtained (e.g., in Canada) but a person has a note from police, it would still suffice to avoid fee at the land border.

The fact that a person can enter the USA without a GC still does not affect the fact that the law prescribes aliens to carry their immigration documents at all times within the country. Granted, this rule is almost never enforced, but it is theoretically a deportable offence and can be applied in some circumstances. I know of somebody who had a hard time at an I-15 internal checkpoint some years ago because he did not have a GC with him. He lived in San Diego and was travelling to Las Vegas at the time. The border patrol officer gave him a warning at the secondary and let him go. The person in question was white, had California driving licence and car registration... still managed to be randomly selected

Does anyone have any documented cases of an LPR being penalized for not having their green card on their person?

I don't mean being given a lecture by CBP, I mean an actual fine or imprisonment or something along those lines.

The law does not require all LPRs to always have on their person the I-551 in order to avoid LPR status-related problems.

Imprisonment? That would be news to me. Someone could run an FOIA with the US DOJ and get that info pretty easily, but it may take time. Same goes for deportation of persons whose LPR status is recognized as valid even if the I-551 is neither on person nor in possession.

Having to pay up a few hundred bucks? Yes, but nothing that costs more than the average UK-US roundtrip ticket nowadays -- not sure that would necessarily be termed a fine.

Meanwhile, I'm expecting gridlock at the DC DMV, as the District is planning to have all 540k people with a DC DL or ID come through in the next year to qualify for the REAL ID version.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...gin_redirect=0