Don't the FAMS fall under the TSA? If so, not sure what the issue is. If it's non-LEO, then it gets interesting.

FAMs don't belong in the flight deck either.

Until someone provides an authoritative source, this is just scuttlebutt.

After 9/11, back when I was a ramp guy the first thing that the TSA took away from us was jumpseat privileges. If they get jumpseat privileges, they may get to their destination, but I will guarantee you their baggage won't.

They are welcome to access the flightdeck as soon as they get past the armed pilots, the FAs with beverage carts, and the fire axe.

I don't get the reference. Does jumpseat riders' baggage frequently not make it, or would this be a special treatment for TSA clerks who might invoke a rule forcing airlines to let them take any flight for free on demand? (If my memory serves me right, can FAMs currently do this?)

That was sarcasm with humorous intent. The ramp guys load the jumpseat rider's baggage in the ABK, since there isn't exactly space on the flight deck. Since the TSA took away our flight privileges because they thought it was too burdensome to verify our trustworthiness, I could see some of the ramp guys "accidentally" forgetting to load their baggage, because after all, we aren't very trustworthy.

We know the TSA is trustworthy because they told us there's no problems in a recent press release and because passenger luggage theft has doubled since the TSA was put into place. Aren't you glad they are providing security to protect against those untrustworthy baggage handlers...oh wait, ignore that part I mentioned about the doubling in passenger luggage theft. That wasn't in the TSA's press release.

The day they decide they are equal to the FAA is the day I surrender my certificate. I'm not an airline pilot, but no $#@! way would I let any of them on an aircraft I was piloting.

I'm not ok with the idea of them being on the flight deck on a plane I was a passenger on, for that matter.

Given the stories I've heard about FAMs knocking off first-class passengers so they can "protect" the flight, I'm wondering if ramp guys ever "forget" to load the FAMs' bags.

I'm not a pilot, however, if I were, as the "commander in charge" of the airplane, I would put it quite bluntly: the plane doesn't move until the cockpit door is locked and the cockpit is occupied only by people qualified to be in there. If TSA clerks "have to" be on board to ensure the "security" of the cockpit, they can stand outside the door during the whole flight, and every time I had to use the bathroom, I'd make sure to push the door open really hard to bean them in the head.

Unfortunately, pilots don't have quite that much authority. Certain FAA employees can jumpseat, for example, and there's not much a pilot (of a scheduled air carrier flight, at least) can do about it. If the TSA and airline say the TSA is allowed on the flight deck - that's it. Unless some pilot decides to make a scene, of course.

To make this a little less inflammatory and a little more appropriate for this forum, this is extremely concerning. When you look at safety issues like CRM, sterile cockpit, etc, it's very clear that TSA clerks do not belong anywhere near the people flying the aircraft.

No. The FAA must change the FAR because at the moment:

� 121.547 Admission to flight deck.
(a) No person may admit any person to the flight deck of an aircraft unless the person being admitted is�

(1) A crewmember;

(2) An FAA air carrier inspector, a DOD commercial air carrier evaluator, or an authorized representative of the National Transportation Safety Board, who is performing official duties;

(3) Any person who�

(i) Has permission of the pilot in command,......

Unfortunately the FAA tends to roll right over for the TSA - at least that's what I see as a flight instructor.

Unfortunately, this tends to get resolved at the level of negotiation between the company and the pilot's union. If there's general agreement that someone is allowed access to the flight deck to jumpseat, then the captain actually needs a plausible (if thin) reason to eject them. For example, "he would obstruct my access to the fuel distribution panel on this 727 and is not competent to operate it in the event of a problem."

I'm only a PPL holder but I'm with you 100%. How would you file a flight plan for a flight a TSA person forced himself onto?

There's not enough room in the "Number on Board" block to put "2 when I takeoff but there will only be one by the time I land."