TSA joins NYPD at Subway stop

Old Jul 16, 12, 7:27 pm
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TSA joins NYPD at Subway stop

Today I took the subway to JFK and sure enough sitting in the Sutphin Blvd. subway station (mta owned) there was a NYPD search squad and a group of 4 TSA blue shirts standing around.

I didn't see them stopping anyone, but what rights would they have to even search anyone? If they pulled me aside could I just not agree to any searches?
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Old Jul 16, 12, 7:41 pm
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This disgusting encroachment by DHS onto local transit systems has been well discussed on other threads here.

The court ruling several years ago which upheld these searches -- and by extension, similar ones in Boston and elsewhere -- hinge on the condition that you can decline the search and leave the station.

And, if you are a terrorist intent on bombing the subway, don't even try to enter where the TSA thugs are doing their searches, and walk to one of the other entrances in the station that are left unguarded by TSA protection.
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Old Jul 16, 12, 7:44 pm
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Originally Posted by Mega Boris View Post
Today I took the subway to JFK and sure enough sitting in the Sutphin Blvd. subway station (mta owned) there was a NYPD search squad and a group of 4 TSA blue shirts standing around.

I didn't see them stopping anyone, but what rights would they have to even search anyone? If they pulled me aside could I just not agree to any searches?
Generally when NYPD does this operation, you are free to do a "u-turn" and exit. In the past they do this at stations with several entrances, so you could just go to another entrance (with no checkpoint). What TSA's function here is not clear. [Sutphin Blvd. has lots of entrances...]
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Old Jul 16, 12, 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by nrr View Post
What TSA's function here is not clear. [Sutphin Blvd. has lots of entrances...]
The TSA's function is quite clear: to look fierce and to deter the terrorists from bombing the NY subway, by simultaneously guarding all two thousand or so entrances, 24/7, across the city.

DHS funds these subway bag checkpoints, even if the NYPD operates them.

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Old Jul 16, 12, 7:49 pm
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Actually neither the NYPD nor the TSA has the "right" to search you - you can refuse searches at the subway, but the NYPD can ask you to leave the station (ie walk to the next station and board there ). If the NYPD is not present in the station, you can just ignore the TSA and enter the platform - they don't have the right to do anything, including preventing you from entering if you refuse the search.

The NYPD or a bona fide employee of the MTA can refuse you access to the station if you refuse the search.
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Old Jul 20, 12, 12:41 am
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It is pointless for them to search just one entrance of one station. There are too many ways to enter the subway system.

Although one good idea would be to have a TSA search before the AirTrain entrance, and then have the AirTrain stop inside the sterile area of the airport, therefore negating the need to go through security at the airport.
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Old Jul 20, 12, 7:28 am
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Could be one or two reasons for the TSA’s presence at the subway station, one to operate the ETD machine for swabbing for explosives, the TSA screeners are trained to use the machine, the NYPD is not.

The other they could possibly be BDO’s who are looking for the slightest body movements that would indicate they are terrorists, which could possibly be enough cause to do a stop and frisk.

But with either, you can just refuse to comply and walk out and use another entrance or walk to another station.

Other than that, the TSA screeners just stand there in their blue shirts and try to look important.

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Old Jul 20, 12, 8:03 am
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Originally Posted by nd2010 View Post
It is pointless for them to search just one entrance of one station. There are too many ways to enter the subway system.
Not only that, but on the T in Boston and in NY, there are some entrances that only have one or two turnstiles or gates and are unattended, and do not physically have the space for any checkpoint. These entrances will never have any bag checks.

The bag searches originated in NY as a knee-jerk response to the London Underground bombings. (Though, Governor Romney started them in Boston in 2004 during the DNC.) No politician had the balls to say, "You know what? It is simply not possible to secure a subway system with thousands of entrances that are open 24/7." So they set up these searches, that hinge on the assumption that a suicide bomber would only enter the subway at 8 a.m. on a weekday at the glittering Times Square main entrance on 42nd and Broadway.

At the beginning, they were physical searches, and only later moved to the ETD swabbing, as companies like Smiths Detection realized the profits they could make from this new expansion of the uses of their products. At the same time, the cops get to say, "We're just doing a quick swab, it'll take ten seconds and you're on your way."

Meanwhile the courts were spineless, trusting the "expert" testimony of the NYPD and playing in to the grave threat that subways face from terrorists.

http://www.aele.org/law/2006LRSEP/macwade-kelly.html

Never mind that in 1994, a guy firebombed a 4 train at Fulton Street, and in the first half of 1995, the Paris Metro was bombed and there was a gas attack on the Tokyo subway. And in December of 1993 there was the mass shooting on the LIRR.

But of course, 9/11™ changed everything.
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Old Jan 30, 14, 8:26 am
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Super Bowl

https://twitter.com/TSAmedia_LisaF/s...786240/photo/1

Could a better backdrop have been chosen for this propaganda shot?

I'm guessing based on the degree of fitness of some of these fine protectors of freedom that they chose their location so that they could duck in for a quick bite between bag searches.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014...-security-risk

Too bad none of the spineless and robotic media brought up that the Volgograd attack was a suicide bomber who blew himself up at a security bag inspection checkpoint.
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Old Jan 30, 14, 12:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott View Post
Could be one or two reasons for the TSA’s presence at the subway station, one to operate the ETD machine for swabbing for explosives, the TSA screeners are trained to use the machine, the NYPD is not.

The other they could possibly be BDO’s who are looking for the slightest body movements that would indicate they are terrorists, which could possibly be enough cause to do a stop and frisk.

But with either, you can just refuse to comply and walk out and use another entrance or walk to another station.

Other than that, the TSA screeners just stand there in their blue shirts and try to look important.

Mr. Elliott
There is one, and only one reason that the TSA screeners are hanging at the subway: The TSA is massively overstaffed and, instead of reducing staff levels and handing back a portion of the budget, they loan the officers out wherever they can.

Mike
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Old Jan 30, 14, 1:07 pm
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I knew the TSA would find way to infiltrate the Superb wl...
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Old Jan 30, 14, 2:22 pm
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Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott View Post
The other they could possibly be BDO’s who are looking for the slightest body movements that would indicate they are terrorists, which could possibly be enough cause to do a stop and frisk.
I like you. You're funny.
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Old Jan 30, 14, 2:28 pm
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Originally Posted by Mr. Elliott View Post
The other they could possibly be BDO’s who are looking for the slightest body movements that would indicate they are terrorists, which could possibly be enough cause to do a stop and frisk.
Given that a BDO's detection rate is pretty much the same as that of chance, why not employ some fifth graders to randomly select "terrorists" out of the crowd? I suppose child labor laws would come into play, but the savings would be enormous. We could pay in candy bars and lollypops, which would be a great prep for their future careers in the TSA.
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Old Jan 30, 14, 4:57 pm
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FAM grounded - not really, on land, patrolling NY Penn / Amtrak & NEC

Gosh - it's only a hyped up sports event called the SB & just b/c it's in New Jersey.

So we got FAM in uniform, patrolling underground at NY Penn Station - in cooperation with LEO locally. Good to know that some of the buddies in LE are getting plenty of OT pay for this & our tax dollars are working

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...rts&id=9413673
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Old Jan 30, 14, 5:10 pm
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I guess once you pay all that LEO overtime there's no money left to make the trains, you know, actually run.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...nd_delays.html
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