No, in plainer language, what I'm basially saying is that "There's an effective time and place to take actions based on the desired result of those actions."

For me, personally, when I'm going throught a TSA checkpoint my goal is to do so as quickly and peacefully as possible in order to get on an aircraft and arrive at a destination. As such, and knowing the potential for my goals to disrupted, I do what it takes to accomplish those goals.

For me, personally, the time and place to fight the TSA is via the polling booth.

THAT's about the size of it.

Very well said. Thank you.

Regarding the remaining comments/questions, most of them have been asked and answered at least once already in this tread.

As such, I must appolgize for my inability to further articulate things in a manner of which you would understand.

Or to put it another way "Never try and teach a pig to sing. It just wastes your time and annoys the pig."

Once again, have a nice day (night, whatever) everyone.

Always ask for a supervisor when you do not have a item that exceeds the liquid rules or violates the weapons rule.

It isn't sarcasm. Sarcasm has a certain aspect of "tongue in cheek." I revel in every TSO death and if I can help speed it along by refusing transport, so much the better. The TSA has declared war on every American that is not part of them. I have fought a war. You don't win a war in the polling place or by writing letters. You win a war by going after the people who actively fight it. Part of that includes a psychological factor. Undermine the self-respect of the enemy and you undermine his effectiveness. Of course not every TSO is an active child molester, but every single TSO facilitates a system that allows its ranks to be filled with them.

Did you just call some of us pigs? (Just kidding, really.)

I have read through this entire thread and this is my attempt at summation.

Of those that approach the CP these are the most likely variations of the three variables: specialized knowledge, intent to do harm, materials and parts with which to do harm:

1. People with no specialized knowledge, no intent and no material.
   
   
2. People with specialized knowledge, no intent and no material.
   
   
3. People with specialized knowledge, no intent but they do possess material.
   
   
4. People with specialized knowledge, intent and possession of material.
   
   
5. People with no specialized knowledge, no intent but possession of material that could be used by someone with knowledge and intent.
   
   
6. People with no specialized knowledge, but they have intent and material.
   
   
7. People with no specialized knowledge, they do have the desire to cause harm but they possess no material.
   
   
8. People with specialized knowledge and intent but no material.

Of the people above, #1 and #2 should not be of any concern, and should be cleared without incident.

#3, #4, #5 and #6 should have their materials surrendered and prosecuted if laws were broken.

#7 and #8 are clearly concerns but outside of the TSA WEI mandate.

Bottom line, knowledge and/or intent, without material to carry out the threat, is outside the scope of the CP inspection. They are there to keep material off the plane. When they move into areas of discerning intent or judging the danger of specialized knowledge, they have entered into unacceptable territory.

Just for clarification, I presume "material" does not include how-to manuals?

~~ Irish

To a maintenance guy like me, material are the physical items that can be put together to create an object or assembly. Parts, not reading material.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

I can only hope that you are a PhD and not an MD.

If you're an MD, do you recall speaking the words "I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures (that) are required" and "I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm."

If this is, indeed, not meant to be sarcastic you remind me of another doctor you may have heard of. I believe his last name was Mengele.

Your advice is correct if self preservation is the priority but incorrect if you care more about mankind as a whole.

Under your mentality, the American Revolution never would have been fought because there was no chance to win many of the individual battles.

It is the brave few individuals who are willing to stand up to the the Redcoat musket fire, who refuse to move to the back of the bus, who are willing to refuse to answer questions or submit to "voluntary" searches by abusive cops and take the nightstick beating, who are willing to stand up to the TSA power tripping who help bring about change. These people are heroes. Unless someone stands up AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT nothing will ever change because the courts and the government will claim no harm was done since the person "voluntarily" complied.

Answering irrelevant questions from TSA is particularly dangerous. IANAL, but it seems to me that our courts have a (bad IMO) habit of using a malleable definition of "reasonable expectation of privacy" that is largely based on what the public will put up with. 50 years ago invasive pat downs and virtual strip searches never would have been "reasonable," but because the camel got his nose under the tent with carry-on x-ray and WTMD in the 1970s, it became "reasonable." If passengers tolerate answering "voluntary" questions from TSA about their travel, property, and lives, that too will become "reasonable" in the eyes of the courts, and it will be impossible to stop them from asking even more personal questions as a mandatory condition of travel.


^

Fantastic and glad to see someone is doing this. If this idea caught on in a variety of services, business, etc., even within the confines of a single city, it could make a huge difference. (Another personal desire of mine is to see animal shelters refuse to adopt to cops and their families because of the consistently dreadful treatment of pets by law enforcement who seem to think that pets are convenient consequence-free targets for sport shooting (google Cheye Calvo) and the cowardice of law-enforcement leadership and unions who both cover up and refuse to condemn this pattern of abuse.)

The worrisome thing (to me) about OP's experience is that it so closely smacks of thought police.

I recently traveled carrying several aeronautic charts. They weren't for my own use (and my license isn't current, anyway, so I don't carry it around with me). They were for a relative wanting more current charts to plan a flight through our area. Of course he could have obtained them some other way, but it was a small favor and convenient for me to pick them up for him. I also would not have engaged in discussion with a TSA screener about my reasons for having the charts with me. I recognize this would likely have caused me difficulty.

I suppose, in the end, it all depends on where one draws the line in the sand.

Robert Heinlein, in his novel "If This Goes On ... ", said:
And I agree with him.

~~ Irish

We understand perfectly.

Your philosophy is "Don't make waves".

Many of us don't share that philosophy.

And sometimes one can educate the screening clerks. I had a big argument over my Nexus card a couple months ago. The last time I went through the same terminal - same supervisor, I recognized him - the document scribbler did at least know what it was. So, by making waves, it is possible to change things. If your supreme goal in life is not to make waves, you don't ever change anything.

I only would like to make some remarks regarding the original post.

The 9/11 terrorist did have pilot id. So if somebody able to use these charts, it is ok, if not, then it is prohibited?

As for reading materials. Tom Clancy described the method of the 9/11 terrorist attack in one of his earlier book. He (with hundreds of other authors) frequently describe hundreds of way to kill people (in many cases with pure hands only). You can buy these books on the secure site of any airport. It means TSO should start to burn books?

It is just insanity.....

Tyranny is tyranny. Anyone that supports/enables/tolerates this TSA tyranny is a traitor to their god, family, and country.

You're pretty close but slightly off the mark.

My philosophy is don't forget what your goals are at the time and make waves in the appopriate way, at the appropriate time. With regard to the OP, if her goal was to keep her charts and get on the jet without incident she IMO went about it the wrong way. If her goal was to "stick it up" the TSA (possibly at the cost of her charts and a bit of agrivation) then she probably accomplished her goal at some level but I doubt the idiot that took them will even remember the incident.

When I'm going through a CP and dealing with the goon squad my goal is to get out of there ASAP and get to the club/boarding lounge so I can be on my way.

When I'm voting, writing to my Congressman, etc. my goal is to have a better system put in place.