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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   confiscating non-"weapons" (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1367052-confiscating-non-weapons.html)

Boggie Dog Jul 16, 2012 2:32 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18941199)
Just so I'm understanding what you're saying, you're telling me that the TRANSPORT SAFETY Authority has no business in not allowing you to bring detailed plans on how to destroy an aircraft onto said aircraft? :confused::confused::confused:

If so, we are miles apart on this one.

How would such plans threaten that flight?

How do aeronautical charts of any kind threaten flight safety?

If I won't promise to not say boo are you going to feel unsafe?

saulblum Jul 16, 2012 2:33 pm

Take the DTW FSD to small claims court.

I am serious.

medic51vrf Jul 16, 2012 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by Combat Medic (Post 18941234)
I've got a book that describes how to make a nuclear bomb. Should the TSA take it from me before I get on a plane?

Not necessarily, but it would draw unwanted attention and if said book included details on how to get the bomb on a commercial airliner that would probably move them to do so.

Boggie Dog Jul 16, 2012 2:36 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18941336)
True, but to the TSA the (possibly) associated mens rea might....

So should TSA confiscates books that have murder plots as a theme?

mikeef Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18940945)
Thanks for showing an interest in my safety.

How on Earth was the TSO showing any interest in the OP's safety?

Mike

medic51vrf Jul 16, 2012 2:40 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 18941346)
How would such plans threaten that flight?

How do aeronautical charts of any kind threaten flight safety?

If I won't promise to not say boo are you going to feel unsafe?

Do you really not understand how a person holding detailed written plans on how to build a bomb and get said device onto an aircraft might be viewed as a threat when attempting to board a commercial airliner?

They proably don't and I never suggested that they did.

I never mentioned a single word about me feeling unsafe. I only spoke about what THE TSA might think was unsafe and how making them feel so (or disrespected) would not work to the OPs advantage.

medic51vrf Jul 16, 2012 2:42 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 18941373)
So should TSA confiscates books that have murder plots as a theme?

Nope... And totally irrelevant to this conversation, unless the book was a "how to" manual about commiting a murder on an aircraft.

medic51vrf Jul 16, 2012 2:44 pm


Originally Posted by mikeef (Post 18941383)
How on Earth was the TSO showing any interest in the OP's safety?

Mike

I never said that they were. As previously stated, I was simply illustrating a way of turing a potential negative interaction into a positive (or at least neutral).

lovely15 Jul 16, 2012 2:44 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18941407)
Do you really not understand how a person holding detailed written plans on how to build a bomb and get said device onto an aircraft might be viewed as a threat when attempting to board a commercial airliner?

I don't see that as a threat.

If he was really going to blow the plane up, most likely he'd have figured out to do it without carrying the instructions....

saulblum Jul 16, 2012 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18941430)
Nope... And totally irrelevant to this conversation, unless the book was a "how to" manual about commiting a murder on an aircraft.

Maybe the TSA should also have access to my recent library borrowing records and my Amazon and B&N accounts, just to be sure I haven't been reading any nasty books. And gain access to my web browsing history. And be able to look through my laptop for any nasty documents.

Unless you think that only books with 72-point titles shouting "HOW TO BRING A BOMB ONTO AN AIRCRAFT" are worthy of scrutiny.

Or unless you are trolling.

FearFree Jul 16, 2012 2:46 pm


Originally Posted by lovely15 (Post 18941438)
I don't see that as a threat.

If he was really going to blow the plane up, most likely he'd have figured out to do it without carrying the instructions....

How true! While I may not particularly desire to be on any future flights with said individual, while still in the "research" phase the risk would be inherently low.

medic51vrf Jul 16, 2012 2:54 pm


Originally Posted by lovely15 (Post 18941438)
I don't see that as a threat.

If he was really going to blow the plane up, most likely he'd have figured out to do it without carrying the instructions....

With all due respect, what you (and I and every other person on this forum) feel is a threat is irrelevant. We don't make the rules we just get caught up in the BS that goes along with them.

The TSA is a multi-flawed organization and, generally speaking, the people they hire as TSOs are poorly educated, poorly trained people who have literally seconds to make decisions that they don't have the experience and training to make. I'm in no way disputing that, nor am I sticking up for them. I also don't feel that what they did to you was legally or morally correct.

My point (nothing more, nothing less) was that when dealing with authority figures (regardless of whether you're legally or morally right or wrong) getting them off side is never a wise move. This is ESPECIALLY true when dealing with under educated, under trained people who have a huge amount of authority, such as TSOs.

bankops Jul 16, 2012 2:55 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 18940907)
No TSA cannot confiscate items. At least not legally.

TSA must give the traveler a choice to give the item to someone else, check it in checked luggage, return it to their car, or mail it to themselves.

The OP had his/her property stolen by a TSA employee. That TSA employee should be charged for theft and tried in a court of law. There can be no tolerance for TSA abuse of the public and it will not stop until these TSA criminals are taken to task.

I don't mean in the legal sense, but "throw it away or you are not flying today" is really the same thing. Being forced to give it up or having it forceably taken away is a fine line.

RxFlyer Jul 16, 2012 2:59 pm


Originally Posted by medic51vrf (Post 18941407)
Do you really not understand how a person holding detailed written plans on how to build a bomb and get said device onto an aircraft might be viewed as a threat when attempting to board a commercial airliner?

OK, let's say that a passenger is carrying a book on how to do just that. In bold letters on the front is the title: "How to blow up an airplane" Your posts seem to indicate that you are fine with that book being confiscated by the TSA.

Now, what if the book is in Arabic (or any other language not spoken by the screener). Is it any less dangerous because the TSA has no idea what it says? Should they let it pass? Should they confiscate all books or papers that the screeners can not understand?

I realize that I'm going a bit overboard here, but the fact is that the OP's airline charts are:
1. legal to own
2. not prohibited by TSA policy (except maybe those super secret policies that we can't see but are still expected to abide by)
3. not particularly suspicious

The TSA screener in question had no more right to demand to see a pilot ID and then confiscate the charts than he would to see a medical license if someone is carrying a copy of the New England Journal of Medicine.

Caradoc Jul 16, 2012 3:05 pm


Originally Posted by RxFlyer (Post 18941562)
The TSA screener in question had no more right to demand to see a pilot ID and then confiscate the charts than he would to see a medical license if someone is carrying a copy of the New England Journal of Medicine.

^


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