nhcowboy

Okay, first that's not what happened here - the ID checker asked the children for both their names and their destinations. And I agree with OP and others who are not comfortable with their children being asked their travel plans by a stranger.

And, second, no, the ID checker does not need to ask the child his/her name. Age, perhaps. Name? Absolutely not. Persons under the age of 18 are not required to present ID . . . period. There is no supplemental regulation that says, "but we can interrogate them until we find out who they are." There's no such requirement for adults and there's definitely no such requirement for kids.

shortoneisi

I said nothing about age, destination or interrogation. Name of person needs to match name on ticket. Parent is responsible for informing children of the process. Ticket needs to match your name. If they want to know more information from the child like where you are flying? With my parents. What is your age? Under 18. If you know you are going into battle and dragging your children with you arm them with the information they need to get through without all the drama.

Vidiot

Why? Especially when everyone going through the checkpoint is screened for WEI?

If TSA is looking for things outside WEI, they're exceeding the scope of an administrative search. And airline revenue protection, while possibly a noble goal, is only mission creep when done by the TSA. Fraudulent tickets are not WEI.

SATTSO

You are 100% correct that a person under 18 need not have identification. And obviously, given the age of these particular children, there was no mistaking their APPARENT age.

When I am at TDC, I do not talk "business" with children. I only ask the parents to match up boarding passes to the child when there is a big mess of family at the TDC. That way I can ensure everyone who is going through security has a BP. There have been many times when by doing this I have caught mistakes the airline made, maybe issuing the parents multiple BP and none for the children, or other mistakes, etc.

If what the OP described was true, and I have no reason to believe it was not, personally, I believe the TSO and STSO were incorrect. And if I get in trouble for saying so, too bad for me.

HOWEVER, I want to point out one thing that, even though it changes NOTHING of what I have post above: when the TDC does not check the name of the child with the boarding pass, and the child gets through the checkpoint with an incorrect boarding pass, when it becomes news or happens to someone here, many Flyer Talk members jump all over TSA for screwing up.

There are examples of this. A child flies alone (which is actually very common). They approach the TDC, hand the BP over to the TSO, who checks that its the proper date, departure city, and then lets the kid through the checkpoint without having the child state their name. Now the name on the BP may have been unusual, but who are TSOs to question what parents name their child? Later, the airline finds out the kid had a wrong boarding pass. There have been a few threads about this on Flyer Talk, and people on this site blamed TSA for not checking the kids name. I remember a big one where a kid flew across the country, and many here just bashed TSA for allowing that to happen - but at the same time being heavily critical of TSA for asking a child to state their name.

To recap, I do not think TSOs should directly ask children to state their name. We should confirm with parents the names of their children ONLY to match to the BP (not to look for kidnapped children or some such). And I believe if a child is traveling alone, without an escort from the airlines (happens more than you think), we shouldn't question the child at all on their name - and HAPPILY accept the mistakes this will inevitably allow.

But I doubt I will find many on here who will support this. They want to be able to criticize TSA on one hand, and then demand TSA do what they are critical of on the other. But you can't really have it both ways.


To the OP, if you story is true, sorry it happened; it shouldn't have.

nhcowboy

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure. If an airline allows an unaccompanied minor to fly clear across the country to the wrong destination, that's on the airline - and I would hold the airline fully responsible. But I'll thank the TSA to stay the heck out of it. It's none of your business and I'd just as soon it stayed none of your business. And I think most of those who've been following this thread would agree.

Are there people out there who'd blame the TSA? Sure. And some of them are probably members of FlyerTalk . . . but I'd hazard a guess they don't spend a lot of time on this particular forum!

tkey75

Not your mistakes to catch. That's easily fixed at the gate where it will certainly be found by the people it really matters to.

We agree. Wow. Same reason as my response to your former quote.

SATTSO

But I would be so sure: we already have the threads to prove what I have stated. And the Flyer Talk community generally bashed TSA over it happening. A few did defend TSA, but almost entirely it was negative comments that TSA failed at TDC by not confirming the unaccompanied childs name to the boarding pass.

But I can see that you would act differently, so ^ to that.

jkhuggins

I think the seemingly hypocritical criticism to which you refer does actually have a point.

Here's the way the argument ought to play out, IMHO. "Checking names at the TDC stations doesn't provide added value to security and should be eliminated. But, if TSA is going to insist on checking names, it should do so properly, and is thus fair game for criticism when it does so poorly."

In essence, the criticism of a TSA document check failure becomes part of the argument against doing document checking in the first place ... "if you can't do it right, don't bother doing it at all."

Of course, that's an awfully subtle point to make. And, as you say, there are plenty of people who will simply roast TSA any chance they get. But I don't think the double-barreled criticism that TSA takes for name checks is quite as contradictory as it might seem.

T-the-B

I think that in the scenario you describe people here would criticize TSA for failing to perform what TSA itself says is an important part of security screening. Very few people on this forum actually think that the ID nonsense contributes anything useful to security and we would all be happy to see the whole charade dropped. However; since TSA insists that matching passengers to boarding passes is important is is only natural to point out that TSA is often incapable of performing such a rudimentary task. We point it out, not because we think it is an actual security lapse, but rather to show that the whole exercise is pointless. In other words, even though TSA is incompentent at passenger/boarding pass matching no planes fall out of the sky.

zitsky

I'm not too thrilled about the say-your-name policy, but I'm surprised at the amount of energy being expended over such a minor issue. Even if the kids were underage, I really can't see the problem with them just being asked to say their name. They weren't molested in any way that I can see. Saying your name at an airport screening location does not mean that they will allow strangers to approach them outside the airport. It's just a name.

Reading the threads here, I feel silly for getting upset about potentially being asked to say my name. I plan to cooperate with TSA if I'm ever asked to do that as part of screening. That does NOT mean that I'll talk to a BDO. That's an entirely different story.

jkhuggins

I'll probably say my name if asked, too. But there are some reasonable criticisms of the policy.

1. It will only detect dumb terrorists --- terrorists so dumb that they can't remember the name on the boarding pass for the entire ten seconds between when they give their boarding pass to the TDC and when they're asked their name. As such, it's a waste of time (and therefore money).

2. What's the means by which a TDC judges the passenger's response? Heaven help Ndamukong Suh or Mike Krzyzewski when they approach a checkpoint and have to convince the TDC that they're saying their own names properly.

3. What does it matter if a passenger can state their name properly? They're going to be screened for WEIs anyways.

Loren Pechtel

Agreed. The issue isn't talking with strangers, it's going with them. They should understand that an unknown adult who initiates a conversation with them very well might be up to no good but it's stupid to say you simply can't talk with strange adults.

nachtnebel

^^^^^^^

It is too bad you aren't the official TSA spokesman.... What is in the back of my mind when I read the OP's story was that this could be a deliberate precursor to BDO questioning of children, which would be a very threatening development. If it was just a screw-up, that would be good news.

BECAUSE of the highly invasive security procedures, people are looking for any stick to use against the TSA. That is unfortunate because mistakes are bound to happen, such as not reading or misreading a boarding pass. Those kind of mistakes are far preferable than screw-ups that result in people getting physically and sexually molested. I think once TSA stops its invasive procedures, nobody is going to care about TSA bloopers.

janetdoe

If you want your kids to refuse to speak to TSA, give them a real civics lesson, and empower them to protect their rights.

Explain the fourth and fifth amendments, and how these rights are under assault by people who don't appreciate or understand freedom. 11-14 year old children are old enough to understand this; I was taught US History in 5th grade, and had an understanding of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights at that age.

Explain that the best way to defend themselves against such violations is by exercising their rights. Then empower them by giving them an appropriate response to give to any TSA questions, "I'm exercising my right to remain silent."

I would really really really like to have a tape recorder running when a TSO tried to explain to your children that they do not have a right to remain silent when being questioned by a government agent. I think your children (with your support) could take a firm stance on that all the way up through every TSA supervisory level, and any LEOs would laugh if they were asked to escort children away from the checkpoint because they were exercising their constitutional rights.

Further, if the TSA retaliated against you or your children in any way for exercising their 5th amendment rights, imagine the lawsuit you would have on your hands... the settlement (because we all know they can't let any of these cases come to trial) might pay for a few vacations.

Or you could just tell them it's OK to tell the TDC their name. This certainly is not a battle I pick when I travel with my 5-year old niece. When anyone asks her for her name, she looks up at the adult she's traveling with for permission, and if they nod, she says her name. <shrug> It may change when she gets older.

PhoenixRev

Okay. Now, let's say that everyone is onboard with saying their names. Great.

Six months down the road, the TSA now wants you to state your destination. It's a minor thing. And, so, everyone gets on board.

A few months later, the TSA now wants you to state your name, your destination and the purpose of your trip. It's a minor thing. And, so, everyone gets on board.

A few months after that, the TSA wants you to state your name, your destination, the purpose of your trip and how long you will be staying. It's a minor thing. And, so, everyone gets on board.

And so on and so on and so on.

It's the lobster in the cold water that is slowly being heated to boiling.

At some point you have to draw the line. The line should be drawn early, not when the TSA has every reason to keep saying "hey, you give us all this other info, so what is one more piece?"

The stating of the name is security theater at its finest. There is no purpose except to make it look like they are piling on layers of security that will keep the Soccer Moms of America and their children safe from the scary terrorists because, as we all know, the terrorists are sitting in their caves thinking, "Damn, we could easily blow up that plane if they just wouldn't ask us to state our names!!!!"