TSA to expand their "greeter" program Nationwide
Sep 20, 2011 | 6:05 am
#16
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Sep 20, 2011 | 6:43 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 30,986
If anyone comes to me with this line of questioning I am going to question back on his/her reading of that Nature (Worlds top scientific journal) article saying SPOT has no scientific basis. I consider it mandatory reading for all spotniks. Anything less would be highly unprofessional of them, wouldnt it??
Sep 20, 2011 | 1:06 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Finally back in Boston after escaping from New York
Posts: 13,684
Sep 20, 2011 | 1:40 pm
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
1. For general, non-personal questions, e.g. "Nice weather today, isn't it?" I'll respond politely (unless the BDO is rude, in which case I will calmly protest, and escalate as necessary).
2. For personal questions, e.g. "What do you do for a living," "Who do you plan to see at your destination," etc., my response will be, "The government cannot, constitutionally, demand that I disclose this kind of private and personal information as a condition of flying on commercial aircraft. I have no intention of answering you."
If I'm threatened with DY... today, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC." Rinse and repeat.
If I'm told I have to answer or submit to a grope, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC."
If I'm threatened with referral to a LEO, my response will be, "Please call a LEO, now. I'll wait right here."
However, if I do not answer the questions, I may imperil my ability to fly that day.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
Sep 20, 2011 | 1:42 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Sep 20, 2011 | 2:04 pm
#22
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I don't know whether TSOs are considered "federal officers." ICE officers are, but they're also LEOs. Regardless, I suspect that, if you lie, you could be cited for "interfering with the screening process." What I intend to do is as follows:
1. For general, non-personal questions, e.g. "Nice weather today, isn't it?" I'll respond politely (unless the BDO is rude, in which case I will calmly protest, and escalate as necessary).
2. For personal questions, e.g. "What do you do for a living," "Who do you plan to see at your destination," etc., my response will be, "The government cannot, constitutionally, demand that I disclose this kind of private and personal information as a condition of flying on commercial aircraft. I have no intention of answering you."
If I'm threatened with DY... today, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC." Rinse and repeat.
If I'm told I have to answer or submit to a grope, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC."
If I'm threatened with referral to a LEO, my response will be, "Please call a LEO, now. I'll wait right here."
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
1. For general, non-personal questions, e.g. "Nice weather today, isn't it?" I'll respond politely (unless the BDO is rude, in which case I will calmly protest, and escalate as necessary).
2. For personal questions, e.g. "What do you do for a living," "Who do you plan to see at your destination," etc., my response will be, "The government cannot, constitutionally, demand that I disclose this kind of private and personal information as a condition of flying on commercial aircraft. I have no intention of answering you."
If I'm threatened with DY... today, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC." Rinse and repeat.
If I'm told I have to answer or submit to a grope, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC."
If I'm threatened with referral to a LEO, my response will be, "Please call a LEO, now. I'll wait right here."
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
duly memorized! Thanks...
Sep 20, 2011 | 2:04 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Sunshine State
Programs: Deltaworst Peon Level, TSA "Layer 21 Club", NW WP RIP
Posts: 11,372
TSA prevention programs use the same logic as Lisa Simpson’s Tiger-Repellant Rock. Except the "TSA Tewwowist Repellant Rocks" tend to cost a billion dollars and come via the Chertoff Group.
add: In these type of encounters, expecially in two party states, the first words out of the passenger's mouth should be "Do you mind if I tape record this conversation? Just in case you might violate my constitutional rights, I will have proof for my Federal civil rights lawsuit. You don't mind, do you? You are not planning to violate the Constitution, are you?"
Last edited by Flaflyer; Sep 20, 2011 at 2:09 pm Reason: add
Sep 20, 2011 | 5:07 pm
#24
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
18 USC 1001 doesn't require the information be disclosed to a Federal "officer". The only question is whether a lie would be "material", but if the TSA says a passenger's ability to proceed further is a function of the answer, it seems to me that it's material by definition.
Sep 20, 2011 | 5:16 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I don't know whether TSOs are considered "federal officers." ICE officers are, but they're also LEOs. Regardless, I suspect that, if you lie, you could be cited for "interfering with the screening process." What I intend to do is as follows:
[Big snip of some good stuff]
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
[Big snip of some good stuff]
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
I, too, intend to memorize and use.
Sep 20, 2011 | 6:55 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Programs: Southwest Rapid Rewards. Tha... that's about it.
Posts: 4,430
I don't know whether TSOs are considered "federal officers." ICE officers are, but they're also LEOs. Regardless, I suspect that, if you lie, you could be cited for "interfering with the screening process." What I intend to do is as follows:
1. For general, non-personal questions, e.g. "Nice weather today, isn't it?" I'll respond politely (unless the BDO is rude, in which case I will calmly protest, and escalate as necessary).
2. For personal questions, e.g. "What do you do for a living," "Who do you plan to see at your destination," etc., my response will be, "The government cannot, constitutionally, demand that I disclose this kind of private and personal information as a condition of flying on commercial aircraft. I have no intention of answering you."
If I'm threatened with DY... today, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC." Rinse and repeat.
If I'm told I have to answer or submit to a grope, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC."
If I'm threatened with referral to a LEO, my response will be, "Please call a LEO, now. I'll wait right here."
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
1. For general, non-personal questions, e.g. "Nice weather today, isn't it?" I'll respond politely (unless the BDO is rude, in which case I will calmly protest, and escalate as necessary).
2. For personal questions, e.g. "What do you do for a living," "Who do you plan to see at your destination," etc., my response will be, "The government cannot, constitutionally, demand that I disclose this kind of private and personal information as a condition of flying on commercial aircraft. I have no intention of answering you."
If I'm threatened with DY... today, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC." Rinse and repeat.
If I'm told I have to answer or submit to a grope, my response will be, "Please call your supervisor, the FSD and the GSC."
If I'm threatened with referral to a LEO, my response will be, "Please call a LEO, now. I'll wait right here."
That's the risk we'll all have to take. I'm prepared to not fly and, for that matter, be arrested if that's what it comes to.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
Unfortunately, as I am not a lawyer and do not have the financial ability to retain one of your conviction and ability, I have to take a somewhat kinder, gentler approach when dealing with this nonsense.
It may or may not work, but when I get interrogated at the airport, I'm simply going to respond with, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discus that." WHY? I'm not at liberty to discuss that. Are you a government worker? I'm not at liberty to discuss that.
If I am denied flight, so be it. I won't let them touch me, and I won't discuss my travel plans, my work, or my employer, or divulge any Personally Identifiable Information, just as I was instructed in my yearly OPSEC training.
Last edited by WillCAD; Sep 21, 2011 at 3:53 am
Sep 21, 2011 | 12:34 am
#27
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
In related news, I haven't washed my car in the past 60 days, and the sun didn't explode. You're all welcome.
Sep 21, 2011 | 6:44 am
#28
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney (for now), GVA (only in my memories)
Programs: QF Lifetime Silver (big whoop)
Posts: 9,329
TSA wants to chat? I'd love to chat!
Where are you going?
Well, that really is a loaded question, isn't it officer? ... [great stuff] ...Then, once I get my coffee, I guess I'll head to the gate. On the way I suppose I'll need a quick bathroom break. Then maybe I'll head to one of the stores to pick up something for my daughter. ... [more great stuff] ... Say, do you happen to know, is the bathroom just through here, or is it closer to my gate?
TSA wants to chat? Fine, I'll chat.
Where are you going?
Well, that really is a loaded question, isn't it officer? ... [great stuff] ...Then, once I get my coffee, I guess I'll head to the gate. On the way I suppose I'll need a quick bathroom break. Then maybe I'll head to one of the stores to pick up something for my daughter. ... [more great stuff] ... Say, do you happen to know, is the bathroom just through here, or is it closer to my gate?
TSA wants to chat? Fine, I'll chat.
I did something like at Immigration in NZ once; I was sleep-deprived after too many late nights but all geared up to give a conference talk on the really exciting part of my project, so when the immigration guy asked "reason for visit" I launched into it. After two sentences he gave me back my passport and said, rather forcefully, "Welcome to New Zealand. NEXT!!!"
Sep 21, 2011 | 9:42 am
#29
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
Add more detail about the highlighted sentence and you'll be waved through quick-smart!
I did something like at Immigration in NZ once; I was sleep-deprived after too many late nights but all geared up to give a conference talk on the really exciting part of my project, so when the immigration guy asked "reason for visit" I launched into it. After two sentences he gave me back my passport and said, rather forcefully, "Welcome to New Zealand. NEXT!!!"
I did something like at Immigration in NZ once; I was sleep-deprived after too many late nights but all geared up to give a conference talk on the really exciting part of my project, so when the immigration guy asked "reason for visit" I launched into it. After two sentences he gave me back my passport and said, rather forcefully, "Welcome to New Zealand. NEXT!!!"
Sep 21, 2011 | 9:58 am
#30
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Delta Diamond Medallion 1MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, National Car Executive Elite
Posts: 550
During one of my encounters involving 2 TSOs, 1 TSA supervisor, and 1 LEO, the LEO said to my complaints that "we must be doing something right, we've not had any terrorist attacks since instituting the enhanced screening." I looked him in the eye and said, "Sir, every morning when I get up, I kneel down and kiss the ground before the sun comes up. And every morning the sun then comes up. Using your logic, the only way to prove that I'm not the reason for the sun coming up every morning is for me to stop kissing the floor every morning and see what happens." The LEO dropped his mouth open, was silent for five seconds, and then said, "well, I guess you're right."