TSA to expand their "greeter" program Nationwide
Sep 19, 2011, 7:05 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 13
TSA to expand their "greeter" program Nationwide
http://www.fiercehomelandsecurity.co...ide/2011-09-19
Greeters? Who the heck are they fooling?!
Yep, now the rest of us who didn't fly into BOS will have to put up with this nonsense too.
Greeters? Who the heck are they fooling?!
Yep, now the rest of us who didn't fly into BOS will have to put up with this nonsense too.
Sep 19, 2011, 8:01 pm
#3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SEA
Posts: 90
things I'd want to ask THEM
Can we ask them about the red team failure rates at
the airport and question them about when safety of
actual backscatter machines will be tested and reported?
Can we ask them when studies showing that behavior
detection works (as used by DHS) are published in peer
reviewed papers (i.e. accepted by the general scientific
community as not junk science)?
I don't discuss my travel plans with strangers but I
sure do want to know why they spend money better
than drunken sailors (no disrespect for sailors intended).
the airport and question them about when safety of
actual backscatter machines will be tested and reported?
Can we ask them when studies showing that behavior
detection works (as used by DHS) are published in peer
reviewed papers (i.e. accepted by the general scientific
community as not junk science)?
I don't discuss my travel plans with strangers but I
sure do want to know why they spend money better
than drunken sailors (no disrespect for sailors intended).
Sep 19, 2011, 8:06 pm
#4
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA Gold. UA Silver, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt (Lifetime Diamond downgraded to Explorist)
Posts: 6,776
Sep 19, 2011, 8:20 pm
#5
Join Date: May 2011
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Morning Calm, Marriott Plat., Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 297
Wondering, was not the TSA/DHS ruled from some court on some high level to at least implement the comment and reply stage like in Federal Registers? (Recalling from memory, maybe a month or two ago?)
Sep 19, 2011, 9:29 pm
#6
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: *wood Gold
Posts: 1,781
It sounds like we should stage another event around Thanksgiving if this happens nationwide. We can call it "The Great Passenger Flick-Off Day". I'm sure that many of you can guess the particular hand gesture that so many would be encouraged to sport.
If TSA doesn't get the message as an agency, we need to hammer away on each and every one of its employees. Make the minions suffer in the hopes that their disdain erodes the fragile base of power that Mr. Pissytole and Ms. Nappyhead have.
If TSA doesn't get the message as an agency, we need to hammer away on each and every one of its employees. Make the minions suffer in the hopes that their disdain erodes the fragile base of power that Mr. Pissytole and Ms. Nappyhead have.
Sep 19, 2011, 10:29 pm
#7
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
http://www.fiercehomelandsecurity.co...ide/2011-09-19
Greeters? Who the heck are they fooling?!
Yep, now the rest of us who didn't fly into BOS will have to put up with this nonsense too.
Greeters? Who the heck are they fooling?!
Yep, now the rest of us who didn't fly into BOS will have to put up with this nonsense too.
Sep 19, 2011, 10:36 pm
#8
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
Sep 19, 2011, 11:06 pm
#10
Join Date: Jun 2009
Programs: SSSSS
Posts: 867
Ranking Member House DHS Committee Opposed SPOT/Assessor Program
Bennie Thompson, D-Miss in a letter dated August 12, addressed to Hizzonor Pistole, completely debunks the 20 questions gambit:
Full article here.
and Rep. Thompson's letter here. (pdf)
This letter, while old news, contains the following ominous statement from Rep. Thompson:
[emphasis mine.]
So, according to testimony by TSA before Congress, your response to Assessor Spotnik's questions will determine if:
1. You fly today
2. You will be felt today
3. You miss your flight today
4. You are referred to a cop.
By this I construe that they are once again going fishing for anything and everything, and the 4th Amendment, now being fully and finally trampled into oblivion, they have now set their sights on the 5Th Amendment.
Since they have testified to Congress that my response to their interrogation might result in me being referred to a law enforcement officer, I am afraid, I must refrain from speaking to them, at all, other than to provide my name, and destination. Beyond that, I might make small conversation, but if I am directly asked the purpose of my trip, my answer will be "to go to my destination because I want to go there."
'nuff said.
"It appears that TSA is 'doubling down' by using the SPOT model as the basis of another scientifically unproven technique which would require grater personal interaction with passengers," Thompson said in his letter
and Rep. Thompson's letter here. (pdf)
This letter, while old news, contains the following ominous statement from Rep. Thompson:
As explained to Committee staff by TSA representatives, the Assessor screening technique involves asking passengers personal questions. The responses to those questions will determine whether a passenger is sent for additional questioning, secondary screening or referral to a law enforcement officer. As the Assessor questioning protocol was not considered in the DHS Science and Technology validation study, there is no scientific validation, limited or comprehensive, of the efficacy of teh Assessor model of screening to detect persons who pose a security risk to aviation. In essences, instead of attempting to comply with concerns raised by the GAO, it appears that the TSA is "doubling down" by using the SPOT model as the basis of another scientifically unproven technique which would require greater personal interactions with passengers.
So, according to testimony by TSA before Congress, your response to Assessor Spotnik's questions will determine if:
1. You fly today
2. You will be felt today
3. You miss your flight today
4. You are referred to a cop.
By this I construe that they are once again going fishing for anything and everything, and the 4th Amendment, now being fully and finally trampled into oblivion, they have now set their sights on the 5Th Amendment.
Since they have testified to Congress that my response to their interrogation might result in me being referred to a law enforcement officer, I am afraid, I must refrain from speaking to them, at all, other than to provide my name, and destination. Beyond that, I might make small conversation, but if I am directly asked the purpose of my trip, my answer will be "to go to my destination because I want to go there."
'nuff said.
Last edited by greentips; Sep 19, 2011 at 11:09 pm Reason: forgot the pat up
Sep 19, 2011, 11:23 pm
#11
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
One of the functions of Law and due process is to remove the possibility that a government official use his position to subject others to his whim. In this program, that appears precisely what is taking place. It is up to the SPOTnik's whim to decide how he's going to treat you. This is as unAmerican as it gets.
Sep 20, 2011, 4:26 am
#12
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,444
If anyone comes to me with this line of questioning I am going to question back on his/her reading of that Nature (World´s top scientific journal) article saying SPOT has no scientific basis. I consider it mandatory reading for all spotniks. Anything less would be highly unprofessional of them, wouldn´t it??
Sep 20, 2011, 4:33 am
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Can we ask them about the red team failure rates at
the airport and question them about when safety of
actual backscatter machines will be tested and reported?
Can we ask them when studies showing that behavior
detection works (as used by DHS) are published in peer
reviewed papers (i.e. accepted by the general scientific
community as not junk science)?
I don't discuss my travel plans with strangers but I
sure do want to know why they spend money better
than drunken sailors (no disrespect for sailors intended).
the airport and question them about when safety of
actual backscatter machines will be tested and reported?
Can we ask them when studies showing that behavior
detection works (as used by DHS) are published in peer
reviewed papers (i.e. accepted by the general scientific
community as not junk science)?
I don't discuss my travel plans with strangers but I
sure do want to know why they spend money better
than drunken sailors (no disrespect for sailors intended).
We could ask them about their training, their education, and how many college kids with fake IDs they've caught. Or, "Do you get paid more than the clerks over there who grab our crotches?" Or, "I'll bet you're glad you aren't standing right next to those cancer-causing radiation machines over there."
We could have a lot of fun with this!
Sep 20, 2011, 4:56 am
#14
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I enjoy the banter and the suggestions, some of which are sarcastic and some which are serious. But, may I ask for a moment of seriousness, and then we can get back to making the deserved fun of this program?
What legal liability do I incur by not telling them the truth? As a government actor, and if things should occur that place me within an investigation, would my answers to the TDC be considered "lying to a federal officer" or some such crime?
However, if I do not answer the questions, I may imperil my ability to fly that day. So this government actor has the potential to affect my time and cost because I have a potential of legal liability if I do not answer the question. It may be a very small risk of legal liability but a risk nonetheless
So, in the end, they compel a truthful answer at the threat of either a potential legal liability for an untruthful answer or the loss of time and money for no answer.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
Therefore, all three possibilities carry risk for the passenger and none for the government. I also suspect that this would survive legal scrutiny, however unfair it may feel. The only fix is no questions, which does not appear to be going to happen.
So what do we do?
Right now I am leaning towards silence at my home airport where I can effectively participate in legal action if denied boarding and lying if I am somewhere else and trying to get home.
How's that for being forced to make a difficult choice for no good reason?
What legal liability do I incur by not telling them the truth? As a government actor, and if things should occur that place me within an investigation, would my answers to the TDC be considered "lying to a federal officer" or some such crime?
However, if I do not answer the questions, I may imperil my ability to fly that day. So this government actor has the potential to affect my time and cost because I have a potential of legal liability if I do not answer the question. It may be a very small risk of legal liability but a risk nonetheless
So, in the end, they compel a truthful answer at the threat of either a potential legal liability for an untruthful answer or the loss of time and money for no answer.
Finally, the release of my travel plans to person of unknown reliability creates a third potential liability, discussed in detail already.
Therefore, all three possibilities carry risk for the passenger and none for the government. I also suspect that this would survive legal scrutiny, however unfair it may feel. The only fix is no questions, which does not appear to be going to happen.
So what do we do?
Right now I am leaning towards silence at my home airport where I can effectively participate in legal action if denied boarding and lying if I am somewhere else and trying to get home.
How's that for being forced to make a difficult choice for no good reason?
Sep 20, 2011, 5:58 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
I like the National Flick Off Day, but here's one better: AFS folks want AFS? OK, fine, let's give it to them. AFS means that nothing is too outrageous to secure the safety of a flight, and if that means other airports see 4-hour delays ala BOS, so be it.
TSA wants to chat? I'd love to chat!
Where are you going?
Well, that really is a loaded question, isn't it officer? I can't rightly say. With your blessing I would be so gratified to enter the sterile area of this airport. It's such a beautiful building, don't you think? I wonder who designed it? They must have been a very talented architect to have put together such a beautiful, and functional, building. I've never really been through this airport before. I wonder how many gates it has? Say, speaking of, do you know where the closest Starbucks is? I'd love a Grande Caramel Macchiatto right about now. So, I guess that's where I'm going. I'm headed to Starbucks. Maybe the closest one isn't the best idea, though. Perhaps I should find one closer to my gate. I don't know, what sort of lines do you see at the Starbucks these days? Well, regardless, I'm going to figure out which is the most convenient Starbucks. Then, once I get my coffee, I guess I'll head to the gate. On the way I suppose I'll need a quick bathroom break. Then maybe I'll head to one of the stores to pick up something for my daughter. Do you have kids? Are they glad you don't have that job where you poke other women in their who-ha just to get on a plane? That's so ridiculous! But I've gotten ahead of myself. Probably after the gift shop I'll head over to the gate and wait for my flight. This flight was such a steal! I can't believe I got such a good price. I really do hope I'm not sitting next to anyone on my plane that spills into my seat. I see a lot of morbidly obese around this checkpoint. I wonder if someone decided that all fat people were supposed to wear blue? It's just so inconsiderate to be that big and only buy one seat. I can't tell you how many times I've had to forfeit a portion of my seat just so someone else could sit in part of it. Say, do you happen to know, is the bathroom just through here, or is it closer to my gate?
TSA wants to chat? Fine, I'll chat.
TSA wants to chat? I'd love to chat!
Where are you going?
Well, that really is a loaded question, isn't it officer? I can't rightly say. With your blessing I would be so gratified to enter the sterile area of this airport. It's such a beautiful building, don't you think? I wonder who designed it? They must have been a very talented architect to have put together such a beautiful, and functional, building. I've never really been through this airport before. I wonder how many gates it has? Say, speaking of, do you know where the closest Starbucks is? I'd love a Grande Caramel Macchiatto right about now. So, I guess that's where I'm going. I'm headed to Starbucks. Maybe the closest one isn't the best idea, though. Perhaps I should find one closer to my gate. I don't know, what sort of lines do you see at the Starbucks these days? Well, regardless, I'm going to figure out which is the most convenient Starbucks. Then, once I get my coffee, I guess I'll head to the gate. On the way I suppose I'll need a quick bathroom break. Then maybe I'll head to one of the stores to pick up something for my daughter. Do you have kids? Are they glad you don't have that job where you poke other women in their who-ha just to get on a plane? That's so ridiculous! But I've gotten ahead of myself. Probably after the gift shop I'll head over to the gate and wait for my flight. This flight was such a steal! I can't believe I got such a good price. I really do hope I'm not sitting next to anyone on my plane that spills into my seat. I see a lot of morbidly obese around this checkpoint. I wonder if someone decided that all fat people were supposed to wear blue? It's just so inconsiderate to be that big and only buy one seat. I can't tell you how many times I've had to forfeit a portion of my seat just so someone else could sit in part of it. Say, do you happen to know, is the bathroom just through here, or is it closer to my gate?
TSA wants to chat? Fine, I'll chat.