Probably ask about local pizza joint menus.

I'd argue it is the perfect time for condemnation, before it becomes more entrenched or expands greatly.

Doing a quick back of the envelope calculation regarding the time required is all that is needed. Screen 2 million people per day with questions that are good enough to verify passenger intent / truth? Think of the CBP and the quick screening questions they ask and how long that takes.

Instant-emotions and mind reading nonsense through "looking at somebody"? Absolute rubbish. Why don't we just educate judges on this advanced mind-reading techniques, then we can skip trials and juries.

TSA's strong point (if it has one) is not implementation.

Successful implementations (TSA, McDonald's, Walmart) require a tight, well-run organization with excellent communication top-to-bottom (and bottom-to-top) and coherent, engaged management.

TSA lacks all of these.

There is a statistical possibility that even though TSA lacks all the necessary prerequisites for a smooth, professional implementation of even the most minor change, it could go smoothly 'by accident'.

And I might buy a Lotto ticket today and win the jackpot, too.

One's as likely as the other.

In general, I would agree ... if TSA had a track record of responding to criticism offered in a timely fashion. From this observer's perspective ... it doesn't.

Ok this is starting to remind me of Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport. The next thing you know is you will be asked to arrive 3-4 hours before your flight to be questioned before checkin, have your carryon bags be screened before going to checkin. Then comes the TSA security followed by another screening before boarding the flight. Lets see whats next.

Exit screening for domestic flights.

Seriously.

(Do you really think it was an 'accident' that de-training pax were forced into a 'sterile area' for screening?)

Without consequence? Really? Okay, raise your hand if you believe that. Anyone? Seriously, anyone? Don't be shy...

Mike

Bolding mine: But they don't think so

Here is Wikipedia's description of DHS: Whereas the Department of Defense is charged with military actions abroad, the Department of Homeland Security works in the civilian sphere to protect the United States within, at, and outside its borders. Sounds just like Marshall Law with a twist.

And this is how DHS lists their web site: Department of Homeland Security | Preserving our Freedoms ...

That's what happens to all who oppose.

The battlefield needs to be in the courtrooms, in congress, even with protests or boycotts. One passenger declining only hurts the one passenger. Sad but true.

"1.1 The second category is information collected when observed behaviors exceed certain thresholds. In this event, PII (personally identifiable information) will be collected and reported in accordance with normal checkpoint incident reporting protocols including TSA headquarters and field location systems. TSA may collect: (bolding mine)

� first, middle, and last names;
� aliases and nicknames;
� home and business addresses and phone numbers;
� employer information;
� identification numbers such as Social Security Number, drivers license number or passport
number;
� date and place of birth;
� languages spoken;
� nationality;
� age;
� sex;
� race;
� height and weight;
� eye color;
� hair color, style and length; and
� facial hair, scars, tattoos and piercings, clothing (including colors and patterns) and eyewear;
� purpose for travel and contact information;
� photographs of any prohibited items, associated carry-on bags, and boarding documents;
� identifying information for traveling companion."

Enough info to perform an identity theft, but no privacy concerns according to the TSA?

"1.4 How is the information collected?
BDOs directly input their observations onto SPOT reports and into the SPOT database, which does not contain PII. It is also collected from LEOs who obtain it directly from the individual during the preparation of an incident report." (bolding mine)

Many past stories say �troublemaker� pax have LEO called on them, who gets the private info and then hands it over to the TSA.

Sometimes it seems the LEOs force it out by putting the pax in a Catch 22. �If you do NOT provide me your driver license and SSN, I will arrest you for disorderly conduct, and orderly disrespect of my Authoritah.� Handing it over may or may not prevent arrest, but it gives the info to the LEO where it trickles down to the TSO. Later it says the data is retained for 15 to 25 years. Retired KGB agents everywhere are so jealous they never had this power plus supercomputers to store it.

OTOH, a pax who gives a name and nothing else will be told his Miranda Rights and arrested and can THEN remain silent and not provide the info. However missing the plane, a trip downtown, a record, and $10,000 of lawyers and hassle is a result. The folks with the power trip hold all the cards.

And to expand on that:
Information contained in the SPOT database may be shared with DHS employees and contractors who have a need for the record in the performance of their duties, including but not limited to law enforcement or intelligence operations.

The linked privacy document is dated 2008 so I assume it refers to the SPOT program as it's been run historically. Since the new application of the program is significantly more intrusive I'm wondering if they have another document or an update? I searched for but was unable to find anything on the new program.

I am not a lawyer, but from what I have read, this law does not make it mandatory you give them your personal information, only that they can ask you for it.

From what I can see, as long as you don�t get into a situation by swearing or yelling that will give the LEO reason to arrest you on a disorderly conduct charge, then under what charge can the officer arrest you, the law specifically says it is not mandatory you give the BDO any information. From what I have read, the only information you are required to give an LEO if asked is to say your name, not produce any documents.

Another problem I see is while a boarding pass only has your name on it, it also has the ticket number and the flight reservation number, I don�t know if the TSA can get from the airlines the rest of your personal information, but I assume they can. Once the BDO has your boarding pass, then they can copy the information down before they return it back to you, this has been done at checkpoints, even though it is your property and can start a file on you without you even knowing about it.

So the situation here is once the BDO starts talking to you and then asks to see your boarding pass, do you at that point make the decision not to cooperate. I would expect you will not be flying that day, but I feel it would be more than worth it than give the BDO�s any personal information, especially in these days of identity theft. I trust a BDO with my personnel information as much as I would trust a screener with my wallet.

If the BDO then calls for an LEO, and the LEO tries the trespassing charge on you unless you show them your boarding pass, I would say OK, am I free to leave the terminal, this now puts the burden on the LEO to make the next move. It could very well escalate higher and that is the chance you would have to take to prevent the DHS from getting your personal information, it could involve legal fees and lawsuits, but I would think the possibility exists of filing a lawsuit against both the LEO and the DHS because the law specifically states you are not required to give them your personal information.

I wonder how some of our resident lawyers here on this forum would handle this situation.

Mr. Elliott

Where's the Privacy Statement that is supposed to be given to anyone from whom the government seeks personal information? Is the TSA not following the law there either?