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-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   TSA Agents feeling the heat (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1239835-tsa-agents-feeling-heat.html)

red456 Jul 26, 2011 7:31 am


Originally Posted by Bart (Post 16798966)
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I clearly understand your frustration. The TSOs who tell you that checkpoints are "Constitution free zones" are wrong.

And what can we do about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

RoadVeteran Jul 26, 2011 7:45 am


Originally Posted by AngryMiller (Post 16798738)
Your coworkers abuse the passengers and wonder why the passengers are hostile towards TSA employees. This we understand.

I suspect that the person who eventually violently lashes out will be a frequent flier who snaps at one outrage too much because they've experienced the worst TSA can dish out. In the world barrel of airport security TSA scrapes the bottom of the barrel in both efficacy and customer relations.

I have said before and will say it again. I do not condone violence against anyone, including a clerk, but in one sceniero that is a very real possibility given the total outrage over the genital groping and molestations going on at the checkpoint, some individual seeing his loved one being groped by a clerk is going to respond by mopping up the floor with a blue shirt and tin badge, while the clerk is still wearing them.

I would love to serve on that jury, given that sceniero, I say its self defense and guarantee an acquittal^

clrankin Jul 26, 2011 7:48 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 16799423)
And what can we do about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Not that I would by any means suggest that someone take specific action here, but there are plenty of things that one can do about it.

Ostracize TSA. If you're friends with a screener outside of work, then end the friendship. Tell them why.

Refuse to do business with TSA. If you're a shop owner and a uniformed screener comes in to your shop to make a purchase, refuse to sell the service or item. If you run a restaurant, post a sign up saying that TSA is not welcome.

Refuse to help TSA. If a screener comes up to you and asks for help, directions, etc. wherever you are then refuse to provide them. If a screener falls and is injured, refuse to call for EMS.

If they insist upon taking total power inside the checkpoint, then fine - let that be their little fiefdom. But remember, you're totally free outside of the checkpoint - and what you do there is your business. Perhaps if screeners feel like second- or third-class citizens outside of the checkpoint, they will decide that the hassle away from the job isn't worth it and move on to other positions outside the agency.

clrankin Jul 26, 2011 7:51 am


Originally Posted by RoadVeteran (Post 16799501)
I would love to serve on that jury, given that sceniero, I say its self defense and guarantee an acquittal^

The best I think one juror could do is guarantee a hung jury. But I absolutely agree with your sentiments on this. If I ever serve on a jury where one side is a TSA screener, I can guarantee that there's not enough evidence in the world to make me side with that person.

Is it right? No. Is it justice? Absolutely - it's delayed justice for what they do at checkpoints.

DeafBlonde Jul 26, 2011 8:28 am


Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 16799537)
The best I think one juror could do is guarantee a hung jury. But I absolutely agree with your sentiments on this. If I ever serve on a jury where one side is a TSA screener, I can guarantee that there's not enough evidence in the world to make me side with that person.

Is it right? No. Is it justice? Absolutely - it's delayed justice for what they do at checkpoints.

Bolding mine: Or if the other side is a law enforcement officer who backed-up the screener's actions as in Phil Moseck's case.

BearX220 Jul 26, 2011 8:40 am


Originally Posted by RoadVeteran (Post 16799501)
I do not condone violence against anyone, including a clerk, but in one sceniero that is a very real possibility given the total outrage over the genital groping and molestations going on at the checkpoint, some individual seeing his loved one being groped by a clerk is going to respond by mopping up the floor with a blue shirt and tin badge, while the clerk is still wearing them.

I think that is the most likely scenario -- not some road warrior popping off, but an infrequent leisure flyer watching his daughter get selected for nude viewing, then felt up in a recreational (for TSA) secondary, and going berserk. In fact, I can't believe it hasn't happened yet. Abuse begets abuse.


Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 16799519)
Ostracize TSA. If you're friends with a screener outside of work, then end the friendship. Tell them why.

Refuse to do business with TSA. If you're a shop owner and a uniformed screener comes in to your shop to make a purchase, refuse to sell the service or item. If you run a restaurant, post a sign up saying that TSA is not welcome.

Refuse to help TSA. If a screener comes up to you and asks for help, directions, etc. wherever you are then refuse to provide them. If a screener falls and is injured, refuse to call for EMS.

I disagree with all of the above. I'm not sure what it accomplishes besides further embittering TSOs or accelerating the churn rate in TSO ranks (already off-the-charts high). Do you do this with everyone who works for immoral or objectionable organizations -- megabanks, BP, Philip Morris, Murdoch newspapers? What you describe sounds too much like the systematic badging and ostracizing of Jews in Europe during the war; it verges on hate crime. Our campaign is against the institution and its genuinely evil leaders... not its poor tools, many of whom are as much sheeple as the dopes who march cheerily into the NoS with their arms held high.

BearX220 Jul 26, 2011 8:42 am


Originally Posted by clrankin (Post 16799537)
If I ever serve on a jury where one side is a TSA screener, I can guarantee that there's not enough evidence in the world to make me side with that person.

Not much chance of you making it past voir dire then.

DeafBlonde Jul 26, 2011 9:09 am


Originally Posted by BearX220 (Post 16799851)
Not much chance of you making it past voir dire then.

I have been through voir dire for a murder case. They don't hook you up to a lie detector...just sayin.

BearX220 Jul 26, 2011 9:18 am


Originally Posted by DeafBlonde (Post 16800020)
I have been through voir dire for a murder case. They don't hook you up to a lie detector...just sayin.

You are under oath, however. Just sayin'.

N965VJ Jul 26, 2011 9:29 am


Originally Posted by A Jurai Knight (Post 16797803)

Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 16795081)

You fell for our successful troll.:)

Good game that was.

Ah, I see, the spreading of "facts" for one's personal entertainment duly noted.

DeafBlonde Jul 26, 2011 9:56 am


Originally Posted by BearX220 (Post 16800071)
You are under oath, however. Just sayin'.

We did not take an oath, and they did not interview each candidate individually. They posed questions to the group as a whole.

PlatinumScum Jul 26, 2011 10:52 am

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Originally Posted by red456

Originally Posted by Bart (Post 16798966)
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I clearly understand your frustration. The TSOs who tell you that checkpoints are "Constitution free zones" are wrong.

And what can we do about it? Nothing, absolutely nothing.

Which means they're actually correct. A little bit of Gitmo in every airport.

MadScout Jul 26, 2011 10:58 am


Originally Posted by Bart (Post 16783509)
Yeah, yeah, right. You won't do squat. Sounds brave online, but in reality, you won't do a thing because you clearly understand that you would be breaking the law.

My experience as an evaluator is completely opposite. TSOs often do NOT go up as high as they are supposed to. This is because they are truly uncomfortable with the process. My job is to make them do it right, and I'm pretty busy doing that.

So spare me the rhetoric. I don't buy it.


Bart,

Don't assume that because you belong to a culture of cowardice there are not those who would "do squat" if push came to shove. Not that long ago, because of a family emergency I was forced to fly out of Boston with my wife and toddler son. Going into the process my wife knew without a shadow of a doubt that we were not going to be rape-scanned and that if some degenerate, fry-guy dropout attempted to so much as touch my son there was going to be exactly one warning to not fondle my son and then I was going to jail...but not before breaking the wrist of my son's assaulter.

You see, I don't subscribe to the idea that "Violence against TSOs is unacceptable under any circumstances" any more than I do those inane "war is not the answer" bumper stickers. Sometimes violence, like war, is exactly the correct course of action because to do otherwise would be a violation of our very dignity and principles...something I doubt very much a person in your position knows anything about.

clrankin Jul 26, 2011 11:02 am


Originally Posted by BearX220 (Post 16800071)
You are under oath, however. Just sayin'.

Hmmm... It's always possible that one could "forget" one's true feelings for a few moments of time. ;)

rochel Jul 26, 2011 12:30 pm


Originally Posted by TsaAbuseWatch (Post 16780861)
That's the feel good story of the week!

Here's the thing Blue Shirts. Working at TSA is a choice. Staying in the job and molesting people is a choice you make every working day. The fact that you make that choice tells us about your character. I have no sympathy when your poor choices make life unpleasant for you.

Yes! The more I hear of this, the more pleased I become. I would dig ditches for a living before I would work TSA. Seems far more pleasant, and I wouldn't have to subjugate my fellow humans to earn my pay.


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