From thread titled "Rep. Andrew J. Manuse: Why I sponsored the TSA 'don't touch my junk' bill" regarding why he cosponsored the NH bill:



"We have seen horror stories and personally listened to stories from people we know that tell of TSA agents putting their hands underneath people’s underwear – or worse; we have heard about body cavity searches conducted without any cause."


"We have heard about the potential risks of cancer from the backscatter technology and also how some agents have used the backscatter images as pornography. We have read about how the TSA is expanding its airport security into our train stations, bus stations and onto our highways."

"The trauma that such a search could cause to a woman, particularly one who has already experienced a sexual assault, is extreme. A TSA screening could damage a person for life"

First, he makes an intelligent case for what they are doing. Second, for those who don't believe the cavity search story, it's either true or the NH St. reps are bunch of liars.

I understand where you're going with this, but my response is 'No it won't. <get me taken to a private room>' and I (possibly) would not fly that day. It's not my problem that their machine indicates anything.

I consented to a search at the checkpoint. The search was complete (initial patdown), a bit inconclusive from their perspective, but it was complete. Either let me continue on to my gate or go home.

Since TSA claims reason you have to get searched once you are in the secure area is to prevent someone from trying to get explosives on a plane and just leaving if it looked like they would get caught, I would bet that if you set off an alarm you would not be allowed to leave. It would make sense even to me ( and I dought if anyone here has more negative feelings toward these thugs than I do) that one of their secret decoder rules would state that an alarm must be resolved before you would be able to go. My guess is real police would be called if you attempted to leave if not before. You haven't consented to search at checkpoint, you've given control over your body to TSA once you buy a tcket and enter airport.

The courts have made it clear that consent is not required for an airport administrative search.

However, I think you pose an interesting question. Whereas TSA thinks there are no constitutional limits on what it does, a long and consistent line of cases have made very, very clear what are the limits on law enforcement officers. There are requirements for stops, requirements for detention, requirements for search and requirements for arrest. I do not believe an unresolved alarm is sufficient cause for a LEO to do anything more than stop and briefly detain. This has yet to be tested in the courts, so we'll see, but that's my belief.

All of this because of fear. What kind of pussies have we in America become? I'm wondering if I ever want to admit to being American again.

It does not make sense to me that a citizen "must" be searched after s/he has set off an alarm, because the alarms are wrong 100% of the time. No terrorists have been caught, countless innocents have been mauled or irradiated. Divide failures by successes, and you've got the ultimate stupid:

http://www.htloz.net/forums/images/g...de_by_zero.jpg

One more scope n' grope won't make it clever.

"The courts have made it clear that consent is not required for an airport administrative search."

you know, when you say this, the image that comes to mind is the taking of blood samples by force at sobriety checkpoints in some states.*

forcible cavity searches next....

*ok, so they have a rental judge there signing warrants... but you get the picture....

I wouldn't put it past Napolitano and Pistole to have had the idea for the rental judge on call and is just trying to figure out how to slip it past the passengers.

My skirt was gathered at the waist, and thus very loose, so there was no reason for groping skin on skin beneath the skirt, and certainly no need to remove the skirt and put on a paper gown. I have worn that same skirt on subsequent screenings (I often wear skirt-suits for work, where I need to look professional) and the TSO's have not had any difficulty performing the groping from the outside, as per the "SOP" - though of course there should be no need for this intimate exam at all.

On most of my subsequent gropings, they have been done because I opt out. On this particular day, they were not using the Nude-O-Scope, just the WTMD, and I did not alram it.

This occurred mid-October of 2010, before the November 1 PR explosion, so I was caught unawares, as I had read here the test sites were BOS and LAS.

Still I refused the repeated "offer" of a private room screening, saying in a loud enough voice so everyone in line could hear: No I want the general public to see how you treat an ordinary traveler who is just wearing a skirt as required for her work. Then I loudly reported each step of the process to the general public witnesses: Ah, I see you feel the need to squeeze my breasts. Oh you are checking my butt crack. So you have discovered I am wearing a panty liner - do you think it will explode? Do you need to check my vagina and rectum now too?

I hate to think what those two would have done to me had I been willing to go into a "private room" with them - and I told them that was the reason I was not going into a private room. I would not trust them or what they would do outside the public eye, and I let them know it.

Since this was before Nov 1, the TSO was not telling me each step in the process as is supposedly required - so I felt obliged to do my civic duty and let everyone in line know just what these rogues were up to. Perhaps because I am a doctor, such clinical language doesn't bother me, but I think the TSO was very embarrassed - which she richly deserved, and I also told her I thought it was beneath human dignity to accept and perform such exams as part of her job. I think only a pervert would willingly do such a job.

The supervisor who watched the whole thing was getting very angry, saying that I was being disruptive and disturbing other passengers with my "yelling." Of course I wasn't yelling, just speaking in a voice that carried well. And I told the supe that I was the one being disturbed, and they were disrupting my travel experience. I thought they should be ashamed of themselves, but they apparently have no shame.

So sorry you had to go through that. Unbelievable that one or two non -elected officials can do this to the American public and more unbelievable that we are letting them get away with it.

For those skeptics on the cavity search, it was mentioned again (third hand) by the NH State Rep. who wrote the op ed piece on another thread. I emailed him to thank him for the bill and got a nice, personal email back (well maybe it was from a staff person?). He said that it would help the bill if those with TSA horror stories contact all of the Reps and Senators in NH. His info:


ANDREW J. MANUSE
Republican State Representative
Rockingham District 5
3 Hilda Ave., Derry, N.H. 03038
O: 603-505-4793
M: 603-703-8857
eMail: [email protected]
Web: http://www.andrewmanuse.com
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You think search in private rooms are even more invasive ? I've seen two pat downs on youtube and tsa agents did it around breasts, didn't squeezed or twisted them. As a frequent flyer, can you tell if other flyers tend to have pat down more in private rooms or they tend to have it in front of everybody in line ?

I do because there are no video camera's there and in most cases the only witness to a passenger's patdown in that private room is other TSA Agents. Because the passenger is either traveling alone and just doesn't know they can ask for a witness or the TSA Agents will tell a passenger witnesses aren't allowed.

In that situation when you get two or three people, who have power over someone, in a private room where they have the controll. It becomes a group mentality to show the passenger who the boss is and it is just a situation for abuse to occur to a passenger.

Thanks, I'd Rather Walk, I'll email my story to Representative Manuse.

I do not know if private room exams are more invasive, and I have no intention of finding out. I will not go into a private room with a stranger who intends to demand that I remove my clothing so that he or she can examine my genitalia.

I might hesitate to miss a flight "just because" of a groping as Representative Cissna did, because I believe it is better to demonstrate to the general public just how invasive these gropings are by letting them see the TSA in action. But to go alone into a room with such goons - I would rather miss my flight than do that.

With no cameras, and no impartial witness (I usually travel alone, though I could try to recruit another pax if one were willing), those TSO's could do anything they wanted to a passenger and there would be absolutely no recourse. "It never happened" would be "The Official Story."

Might be a reason to opt for a refundable fare, unless you can get a refund just because TSA wouldn't let you go.

I think they're only debating on technique.

I honestly don't think they care what we or anybody else thinks.